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Unryuu

Roach, with a Touch of Holy Magic

22 posts in this topic

Just to be clear, this isn't the usual "introduce deck" thread I that usually make. Unlike with Sword or Shadow, I'm nowhere near as confident in my judgement, experience and deckbuilder skills to be able to assertively recommend a list to people. However, I did spot a number of cards in the Brigade release that seemed really interesting and could possibly play a role in buffing our Forest mainstay Roach in this new season.

So, I hoped this could be more of a discussion where I could respectfully ask veteran Forest dwellers to kindly share some of their insights and talk about the new cards, like @Alexx55 @Karahi.

The whimsical title is thanks to all that powerful magic flying about in the deck, like Seraphic Blade, Fairy's Yawn, Lilac, Justice, Mischief and Axeman's effect.

Here's some food for thought to get us started; my provisional theory Roach list. It still bricks a little, and I don't know how much to expect against Aggro.

O3zsFLX.png

To talk about some of the more interesting choices ...

x 3 Fairy Refuge - People have already talked about this one. I see it as a much more versatile Fairy Circle replacement that neither stuffs your hand instantly, nor is useless past Turn 3. The "Can't Attack" effect is obviously very powerful, but the 1 DP ping is also good for Aggro. Works well with Justice, I suppose?

x 3 Magical Fairy, Lilac - This was in Roach decks before, but I think with the increase of more wards + bricks, an x 3 is definitely justified in the new meta?

x 3 Seraphic Blade - I thought this would be nice as both a low cost spell you can burn to empty your hand quickly, and a nice execute to act as a companion for Justice against Aggro. I like it because it's more consistency as a Dance of Death dupe to clear a ward later. Moreover, it means you don't have to lose to Roland.

x 2 Starry Elf - Roach can be drawn later or tutored hard with Feena, but the Flower of Fairies to set up your combo can't. So I dedicate the Gobbo Mage slot to this instead?

x 2 Greenglen Axeman - Like Dance of Death, but recurrent. I like him because that 2 DP is very good reach to take down Elana/Shrine Haven at their 20 HP.

x 2 Fairy Torrent - I haven't tried this card out, but I surmise it could have a place as both another bounce to Roach, as well as an emergency heal that refills your hand along with a nice heal when you have excess PP?

Edited by Unryuu

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Funnily enough, cant share much, but i do want to try Korwa in roach...Free roach food+hand size+doauble hit roaches?

 

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17 minutes ago, Alexx55 said:

Funnily enough, cant share much, but i do want to try Korwa in roach...Free roach food+hand size+doauble hit roaches?

I haven't tried it. Issue is, with Flower, bounces, and the need to hold like 4 Wisps, hand size becomes a real problem in the opposite direction ... you find yourself milling cards more than needing to stuff the hand. But double hit Roaches ... hmm ....

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Deck in action: Aggro/Mid Shadow getting absolutely slaughtered by Fairy Yawn x Lilac. Only 1 evolve even needed. Stayed out of Cerberus + Phantom Howl range the entire time.

That Turn 4 Seraphic Blade - Airborne Barrage - Fairy Yawn was disgusting.

 

Edited by Unryuu

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7 minutes ago, Unryuu said:

Had a thought. Cut Aerin for Selwyn?

Nah, Aerin stays, you need al the evolves you can get. 

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It looks like a perfectly acceptable Roach list. I don't play unlimited though so I'm not sure anymore what tech options are appropriate. 

 

AND I MUTHA****IN TOLD PEOPLE! Fairy Refuge is one of the best cards of the expansion. I've been finding a billion ways to use it and I'm very happy with it. It was just too underestimated. 

Agreed with Alex, Selwyn is better for some matchups and situations (at least in rotation) to stall but Aerin evo's and heal are valuable. 

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Also, the counter argument to Selwyn in roach is that he requires about 50% or more of your current roach fuel to be useful(again, Korwa could solve the problem)

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1 hour ago, Alexx55 said:

Also, the counter argument to Selwyn in roach is that he requires about 50% or more of your current roach fuel to be useful(again, Korwa could solve the problem)

I actually find myself only ever using Selwyn's first effect to be honest but I think that's probably a lot better in rotation than unlimited. 

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This is what I currently run. Seems to work decently, though Fairy Torrent does get in the way of OTK turns thanks to the Enhance somewhat.

I cut Starry Elf in the end due to Roach being more important (you can OTK with minimal Wisps) as well as the tendency for her to brick hand later.

dqToMDf.png

Edited by Unryuu

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8 hours ago, Unryuu said:

This is what I currently run. Seems to work decently, though Fairy Torrent does get in the way of OTK turns thanks to the Enhance somewhat.

I cut Starry Elf in the end due to Roach being more important (you can OTK with minimal Wisps) as well as the tendency for her to brick hand later.

dqToMDf.png

Is that a god dang animated Aria

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2 hours ago, Karahi said:

Is that a god dang animated Aria

B|

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17 minutes ago, Alexx55 said:

Hmm, still need so many wallet forest cards.... dang

Cassio can be cut for Will of the Forest, obviously. But also you can even take Grimnir over Ancient Elf for not that much utility loss, since it's rare that you have much to bounce back. Aria is core. Axeman can be cut down to x 1 and replaced by Aerin if you have to ... is still a shame since he stacks.

How do you like the deck? It used to have its own problems, but with the latest versions I've been able to consistently keep hand size at a proper level without overload; mainly thanks to stuff like Fairy Yawn, Seraphic and Goblin Mage.

Edited by Unryuu

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19 minutes ago, Unryuu said:

Cassio can be cut for Will of the Forest, obviously. But also you can even take Grimnir over Ancient Elf for not that much utility loss, since it's rare that you have much to bounce back. Aria is core. Axeman can be cut down to x 1 and replaced by Aerin if you have to ... is still a shame since he stacks.

How do you like the deck? It used to have its own problems, but with the latest versions I've been able to consistently keep hand size at a proper level without overload; mainly thanks to stuff like Fairy Yawn, Seraphic and Goblin Mage.

Well, I still need Axemans to begin with, I have 2 Arias...

The only card I dont like in this deck is Fairy Torrent, but that is my personal hate, as it does the least benefit out of all the other bounces (1 heal, 4 real?), and the Enhance can mess up hard on roach plays if you dont have another bounce (doesnt matter if otk is t7 though

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4 minutes ago, Alexx55 said:

Well, I still need Axemans to begin with, I have 2 Arias...

The only card I dont like in this deck is Fairy Torrent, but that is my personal hate, as it does the least benefit out of all the other bounces (1 heal, 4 real?), and the Enhance can mess up hard on roach plays if you dont have another bounce (doesnt matter if otk is t7 though

There are no other 1PP bounces available in Forest. So after x 3 Guidance x 3 Barrage, if that's not enough, it's either Torrent or bust. I don't like it either, but it does what I need it to do for a Lilac or Gobbo Mage return that Pixie Mischief can't do at Turn 4. If they print a new 1PP bounce, sure, I'll take it any day.

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3 hours ago, Karahi said:

@Unryuu

He protecc

He attacc

But most importantly,

He got dang bacc

My first step back into Unlim. 

Since when has Roach ever protecc anything? xD

Welcome back.

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2 minutes ago, Unryuu said:

Since when has Roach ever protecc anything? xD

Welcome back.

He protecc his own legend

 

(Incidentally: aggro sure is efficient in unlimited. I was a sweet, naive summer child - nothing like turn 5 lethals to set your expectations straight) 

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8 minutes ago, Karahi said:

He protecc his own legend

(Incidentally: aggro sure is efficient in unlimited. I was a sweet, naive summer child - nothing like turn 5 lethals to set your expectations straight) 

You're allowed to play 0PP Wisps in a Roach deck xD the poor fellows playing Aggro need to stand a chance too, and the poor sods playing Shift and Midrange too.

Also this is a format where Sword can legitimately have x 3 Round Table x 3 Juliet x 3 Novice Trooper, so be prepared to lose a couple of Aggro Sword matches. But it shouldn't be every match; meta is really diverse in UL so I think you can expect to not get more of the same all the time.

But yeah, takes some getting used to. This is the hell we live in, but at least it ain't ruled by Erika. I actually have a slightly sub-50% winrate with the most aggressive version of Aggro Sword on Masters ladder. Mid Sword just mostly doesn't exist thanks to stuff like Revelation and Themis. Oh, and, Eachtar. Eachtar will do in an Arthur board by himself. xD

Probably will work out once you adjust your expectations and playstyle to the speed. Roach was actually meta for most of DBNE, so it's definitely fast enough as a deck.

Edited by Unryuu

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2 minutes ago, Unryuu said:

You're allowed to play 0PP Wisps in a Roach deck xD the poor fellows playing Aggro need to stand a chance too, and the poor sods playing Shift and Midrange too.

Also this is a format where Sword can legitimately have x 3 Round Table x 3 Juliet x 3 Novice Trooper, so be prepared to lose a couple of Aggro Sword matches. But it shouldn't be every match; meta is really diverse in UL so I think you can expect to not get more of the same all the time.

But yeah, takes some getting used to. This is the hell we live in, but at least it ain't ruled by Erika. I actually have a slightly sub-50% winrate with the most aggressive version of Aggro Sword on Masters ladder.

It's been a lot more fun honestly. I didn't realize how stale and monotone rotation was until playing Unlim again. Huge variety of decks. Also I guess I should revise the roach motto

He attacc

His buddies attacc

He attacc turn 6-7

They attacc the opponent's morale

He attacc two more times for good measure

But most importantly, 

He got dang bacc

 

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And HOLY heck! Wisps are insane. I remember playing Roach in the WD-SFL era and the math was legitimately challenging sometimes. Wisps are like easy mode. I don't even have to think about it, I just know I'll have lethal. 

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