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Karahi

A new OtK

23 posts in this topic

Here's the first edition I just whipped up, the actual state of the meta will determine the rest: 

https://shadowverse-portal.com/deck/3.1.fsMZQ.fsMZQ.fsMZQ.6WEwo.6WEwo.6WEwo.6VzLy.6VzLy.6VzLy.6VxeQ.6VxeQ.5zvAi.5zvAi.6Ko0Y.6Ko0Y.6Oh22.6Oh22.6Oh22.6WERY.6WERY.6H0p2.6H0p2.6H0p2.6WJK2.6WJK2.6WJKC.6WJKC.6Ko0s.6Ko0s.6Ko0s.6Ksv2.6Ksv2.6WLmI.6WLmI.6WLmI.6WLmS.6WLmS.6SXdS.6SXdS.6SXdS?lang=en#_=_

Those who may be interested: @Hikaru, @Othello

Screenshot_20180626-213148.thumb.png.31c55b1566fa7ebc091fc053053c9118.png

Choices:

A. Barrage: Goes in every Forest deck?

F. Refuge: Fairy Gen early game, potential lifesaver setting up for lethal with Ipiria late game. Possibly good as anti aggro depending on Seraphic use

L. Fighter: great synergy with everything. Inexpensive and potentially op control tool. 

Seraphic: doubles as amulet removal and follower removal. Kills hedgehogs. 

Whisperer: obviously. 

Fita: 2/2 that synergizes with Rayne and Korwa for card draw. 

Rayne: practically a staple at this point, procs Fita and L. Fighter 

Devil Flower: convenient amulet removal for anything above 2pp unlike Seraphic

Brambles: I mean, it's Brambles.

Shamu and Shama: Shamu is great against aggression and Shama is great against tall bois

Metera: massive Evo play with card draw built in. 

Ipiria: important combo setup piece to OtK, can also be used on curve if you wanna just aggro out spellboost or Lindworm. 

Venus: Big thicc body, synergizes with Selwyn, draws cards. 

Korwa: kind of the centre piece of the deck? 

Selwyn: many potential uses

Vanara: the last combo piece with Korwa and Ipiria. 

Strategy: Mulligan for Korwa, control the match with all your fancy flexible control tools, draw cards, play fils. As soon as you're about to get your 4th fil, use Ipiria. Use Shama's gaze and Fairy yawn if you don't think you can survive the turn after you play him to lock threats down. If they ward up, use Selwyn, if not, use Vanara and double attack with one or both if you took at least 4 damage in a turn once after playing Korwa. If you draw Korwa late, you can enhance her for 3 fils plus your 4th on the next turn. You can use the Shama/Yawn Strat here as well since you recover play points. 

Honorable mentions: 

Aria: synergy with Selwyn but no real use unless you're using other cards that benefit strongly from wisps such as Elf Song. 

Insect Lord: there's overall better control tools available now. Fits better with aggro than control in the current card pool I believe. 

Fairy Dragon: A perfectly viable inclusion as an inexpensive ward that can sometimes get scary big but the deck is already crowded and the little fella doesn't synergize well with a deck that's so light on active Fairy Gen. 

Magical Fairy Lilac: very Evo hungry and easy to play around. L Fighter can serve the same purpose but with rush

Storied Falconer: Evos and the 2 slot are at a premium and they're better spent on Metera than Falconer, especially since Metera draws you a card and Falconer simply puts a token in your hand. Draw is important here. 

Elephant: Just feels very extra and it's better to build a deck around him than put him in as a tech one of. 

Cassy: Gonna put her in the sideboard slot. You have control tools that kill or incapacitate multiple things anyway but synergize much better with the Korwa strategy. Might be very good but meta dependent for now (but isn't everything?) 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Karahi said:

Here's the first edition I just whipped up, the actual state of the meta will determine the rest: 

https://shadowverse-portal.com/deck/3.1.fsMZQ.fsMZQ.fsMZQ.6WEwo.6WEwo.6WEwo.6VzLy.6VzLy.6VzLy.6VxeQ.6VxeQ.5zvAi.5zvAi.6Ko0Y.6Ko0Y.6Oh22.6Oh22.6Oh22.6WERY.6WERY.6H0p2.6H0p2.6H0p2.6WJK2.6WJK2.6WJKC.6WJKC.6Ko0s.6Ko0s.6Ko0s.6Ksv2.6Ksv2.6WLmI.6WLmI.6WLmI.6WLmS.6WLmS.6SXdS.6SXdS.6SXdS?lang=en#_=_

Those who may be interested: @Hikaru, @Othello

Screenshot_20180626-213148.thumb.png.31c55b1566fa7ebc091fc053053c9118.png

Choices:

A. Barrage: Goes in every Forest deck?

F. Refuge: Fairy Gen early game, potential lifesaver setting up for lethal with Ipiria late game. Possibly good as anti aggro depending on Seraphic use

L. Fighter: great synergy with everything. Inexpensive and potentially op control tool. 

Seraphic: doubles as amulet removal and follower removal. Kills hedgehogs. 

Whisperer: obviously. 

Fita: 2/2 that synergizes with Rayne and Korwa for card draw. 

Rayne: practically a staple at this point, procs Fita and L. Fighter 

Devil Flower: convenient amulet removal for anything above 2pp unlike Seraphic

Brambles: I mean, it's Brambles.

Shamu and Shama: Shamu is great against aggression and Shama is great against tall bois

Metera: massive Evo play with card draw built in. 

Ipiria: important combo setup piece to OtK, can also be used on curve if you wanna just aggro out spellboost or Lindworm. 

Venus: Big thicc body, synergizes with Selwyn, draws cards. 

Korwa: kind of the centre piece of the deck? 

Selwyn: many potential uses

Vanara: the last combo piece with Korwa and Ipiria. 

Strategy: Mulligan for Korwa, control the match with all your fancy flexible control tools, draw cards, play fils. As soon as you're about to get your 4th fil, use Ipiria. Use Shama's gaze and Fairy yawn if you don't think you can survive the turn after you play him to lock threats down. If they ward up, use Selwyn, if not, use Vanara and double attack with one or both if you took at least 4 damage in a turn once after playing Korwa. If you draw Korwa late, you can enhance her for 3 fils plus your 4th on the next turn. You can use the Shama/Yawn Strat here as well since you recover play points. 

question : are you sure about that early game curve? I mean 1/4 of the deck is 5pp..

I know that's still leave you with 3 other non 5pp cards if you randomly pull 4 but still I really hate my draw luck..

I mean my Tenko Shrine deck only have 10 6pp+ follower and for some f'cking reason I always draw them early game.. well not always but enough time to traumatize me..

also Fita is kinda questionable for me..  early game you won't have much chance to proc her and Metera kinda give you 2 draws on 4th curve which is relatively better than Fita-Rayne rush-control-draw play IMO. storied falconeer at least will let you draw rush tool for that. or maybe that Flower of Fairies that will let you draw cards instantly and actually a beneficial bounce target for barrage..

Edited by Hikaru

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I m8 change fairy whisper into storied falconier for more decent body , 

I also thinking about paula but its your decks anyway 

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17 minutes ago, Hikaru said:

question : are you sure about that early game curve? I mean 1/4 of the deck is 5pp..

I know that's still leave you with 3 other non 5pp cards if you randomly pull 4 but still I really hate my draw luck..

I mean my Tenko Shrine deck only have 10 6pp+ follower and for some f'cking reason I always draw them early game.. well not always but enough time to traumatize me..

also Fita is kinda questionable for me..  early game you won't have much chance to proc her and Metera kinda give you 2 draws on 4th curve which is relatively better than Fita-Rayne rush-control-draw play IMO. storied falconeer at least will let you draw rush tool for that. or maybe that Flower of Fairies that will let you draw cards instantly and actually a beneficial bounce target for barrage..

You raise very good points. 25% of the deck is 5 drops which is very odd. Another nearly 50% is 2 drops. I've experimented using placeholders and I think this is the best bet for the specific kind of deck that it is. The point here is that you have to draw Korwa by 5 and also play 4 fils turn 6 to 9. As a result, you want to do low cost but effective combo plays. You may be right about Fita. She's very lucrative with Fils but pretty useless in the early game. I don't like Singer, but it might be better for card draw (always is, hunh?) 

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@Void @Hikaru. Both critiques are good. I may indeed change Fairy Whisperer for Falconer as it is a turn 3 storm which is nice. I might even be able to take out a Vanara and Ipiria since it's very likely to draw them anyway. This could give me room for Lilac or something which evens out the curve a little more. 

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2 minutes ago, Karahi said:

@Void @Hikaru. Both critiques are good. I may indeed change Fairy Whisperer for Falconer as it is a turn 3 storm which is nice. I might even be able to take out a Vanara and Ipiria since it's very likely to draw them anyway. This could give me room for Lilac or something which evens out the curve a little more. 

Well ipiria is actually for aggroish playstyle , and while i see your deck is more into controlish , yeah you better cut ipiria . Im actually pretty surprised you didnt include green axeman , i mean he's pretty decent to cut through your opponent hp, and your opponent also cant let him alive too while you in kurwa effect , 

 

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2 minutes ago, Void said:

Well ipiria is actually for aggroish playstyle , and while i see your deck is more into controlish , yeah you better cut ipiria . Im actually pretty surprised you didnt include green axeman , i mean he's pretty decent to cut through your opponent hp, and your opponent also cant let him alive too while you in kurwa effect , 

 

The point of the deck is to OtK, not be midrange. Ipiria is vital for this since Ipiria into Vanara with 2 fils is 20 damage. It doesn't have to make perfect sense, it just has to OtK. 

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5 minutes ago, Karahi said:

@Void @Hikaru. Both critiques are good. I may indeed change Fairy Whisperer for Falconer as it is a turn 3 storm which is nice. I might even be able to take out a Vanara and Ipiria since it's very likely to draw them anyway. This could give me room for Lilac or something which evens out the curve a little more. 

If it were me I'll use more Shamu-Shama instead.. need more hp restore and giving you more tech option while saving your evo. Like forest is so damn greedy on evo but have 0 evo refund so far.

With Korwa on curve enemy will be hesitant to deal more than 4 damage HOWEVER if when they do expect it to not as lukewarm as mere 4 damage, for example a 6 or more damage to face. your deck are supremely lacking in wards or/and heal..  Shama's antic is control + heal in one package so it'll hopefully put you out of the reach of other OTK. yes that is my reason, and not like I have hot for twins or anything..

and like Void I'll probably scrap ipiria in favor of more early game.. Storied falconer is good because it's tall for 2pp and give you control/aggro tool. I'm probably also gonna include that 3pp 1/4 neutral for early game but the fine tuning will comes later.. 

However this is merely because I'm traumatized by my own bad draw.. last tourney I failed to go to final because I draw ALL of my 7+ which is only 3 of them early when 60% of my deck is 2 and 3pp and then I only managed to get on curve from 4pp before finally draw my first 2 drops.. fml

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2 minutes ago, Hikaru said:

If it were me I'll use more Shamu-Shama instead.. need more hp restore and giving you more tech option while saving your evo. Like forest is so damn greedy on evo but have 0 evo refund so far.

With Korwa on curve enemy will be hesitant to deal more than 4 damage HOWEVER if when they do expect it to not as lukewarm as mere 4 damage, for example a 6 or more damage to face. your deck are supremely lacking in wards or/and heal..  Shama's antic is control + heal in one package so it'll hopefully put you out of the reach of other OTK. yes that is my reason, and not like I have hot for twins or anything..

and like Void I'll probably scrap ipiria in favor of more early game.. Storied falconer is good because it's tall for 2pp and give you control/aggro tool. I'm probably also gonna include that 3pp 1/4 neutral for early game but the fine tuning will comes later.. 

However this is merely because I'm traumatized by my own bad draw.. last tourney I failed to go to final because I draw ALL of my 7+ which is only 3 of them early when 60% of my deck is 2 and 3pp and then I only managed to get on curve from 4pp before finally draw my first 2 drops.. fml

Guys, the whole point of the deck is to OtK. Ipiria is vital to that strategy. Ipiria stays. 

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If you want me to make a legitimately viable midrange deck I'll do so tomorrow when I can playtest it. But I have little interest in midrange. As always, my heart belongs entirely to OtK and memes. 

 

Incidentally, I figured out that Korwa can enable a Harnessed Flame OTK. I'll be posting the method of course. :)

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10 minutes ago, Karahi said:

Guys, the whole point of the deck is to OtK. Ipiria is vital to that strategy. Ipiria stays. 

well this deck would have a REALLY bad time with Shrine then... because there's lack of ping tool to put your enemy into lethal range..  even if you take down the shrine they could easily stays at 20 hp while dropping big dude left and right while your evo are numbered.

I think fairy ookami OTK is more realistic now that we have fils double attack skill,, 

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37 minutes ago, Hikaru said:

well this deck would have a REALLY bad time with Shrine then... because there's lack of ping tool to put your enemy into lethal range..  even if you take down the shrine they could easily stays at 20 hp while dropping big dude left and right while your evo are numbered.

I think fairy ookami OTK is more realistic now that we have fils double attack skill,, 

I don't think you understand the combo. 

Ipiria turn 8 or 9:

It's ambushed. On turn 9 or 10 it can attack. On turn 9 or 10 you use 1 Fil on Ipiria and one fil on Vanara. Your 5th and 6th fils. Ipiria attacks 2 times and deals 10 damage. Vanara attacks 2 times and deals 10 damage the very same turn. It's 4 total attacks on one turn between Ipiria and Vanara. 

Edited by Karahi
Wrong numbers for fils

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6 minutes ago, Karahi said:

I don't think you understand the combo. 

Ipiria turn 8 or 9:

It's ambushed. On turn 9 or 10 it can attack. On turn 9 or 10 you use 1 Fil on Ipiria and one fil on Vanara. Your 4th and 5th fils. Ipiria attacks 2 times and deals 10 damage. Vanara attacks 2 times and deals 10 damage the very same turn. It's 4 total attacks on one turn between Ipiria and Vanara. 

wait doesn't fils only give you double attack on the 5th one?

The text said that "give 0/+1 on your follower, if you've played at least 4 of the fils this match then that follower can attack twice per turn"

From my understanding that text means after you use 4 fils the 5th one and beyond will give you double attack so unless you get 2 fils each turns which means taking 8 damage from between 5-9 you won't be able to proc it by turn 9 and the fils you used on previous turn won't give you a proc from then on.. at least that's how I understand the text..

well let's just see how it'll goes in practice.

Edited by Hikaru

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5 minutes ago, Hikaru said:

wait doesn't fils only give you double attack on the 5th one?

The text said that "give 0/+1 on your follower, if you've played at least 4 of the fils this match then that follower can attack twice per turn"

From my understanding that text means after you use 4 fils the 5th one and beyond will give you double attack so unless you get 2 fils each turns which means taking 8 damage from between 5-9 you won't be able to proc it by turn 9 and the fils you used on previous turn won't give you a proc from then on.. at least that's how I understand the text..

well let's just see how it'll goes in practice.

That was a mistype. I already edited it. Lol. It is the 5th and 6th Fil. 

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9 minutes ago, Karahi said:

That was a mistype. I already edited it. Lol. It is the 5th and 6th Fil. 

It's not like I'm 100% sure that it need to be the 5th one tho.. the text only said if you've played 4 this match and I'm not sure if this 4 means 4 excluding the 4th one or 4 counting the 4th one..  

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Realistically in practice it's more likely that you either only do 15 damage on turn 9 with 1 Fil  or the true OtK on turn 10 with 2 fils. You can use a 5th and 6th fill on turn 9 if you take two 4 damage or more chunks though. 

Fairy Dragon OtK is less appealing with Korwa surprisingly because you need to play 10 Fairies and 4 fils which is incredibly difficult. 

As such, I had the idea of making an OtK that suits Korwa. My belief is that using an ambush follower like Ipiria in the same way you would use Loki for Elephant is the best option. The benefits over Loki-Elephant once I get it refined and worked out, in theory, is this: 

1. You can play it earlier if you intentionally (or unintentionally) let some damage through. Effective against vengeance blood which plays Emeralda and a few other decks. 

2. Ipiria is 5pp - not 8pp. One of the biggest issues with Loki is that you have to save an evolve and kill something and you might die anyway. In the case of Ipiria you can use Shamu's Gaze and Fairy Yawn alongside it and lock the board - no Evo is required. 

3. It punches through damage reduction effects like Alexiel far better. 

4. Combo pieces can be used much earlier if it suits the matchup. 

5. You don't have to worry about keeping a large handsize. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Karahi said:

Realistically in practice it's more likely that you either only do 15 damage on turn 9 with 1 Fil  or the true OtK on turn 10 with 2 fils. You can use a 5th and 6th fill on turn 9 if you take two 4 damage or more chunks though. 

Fairy Dragon OtK is less appealing with Korwa surprisingly because you need to play 10 Fairies and 4 fils which is incredibly difficult. 

As such, I had the idea of making an OtK that suits Korwa. My belief is that using an ambush follower like Ipiria in the same way you would use Loki for Elephant is the best option. The benefits over Loki-Elephant once I get it refined and worked out, in theory, is this: 

1. You can play it earlier if you intentionally (or unintentionally) let some damage through. Effective against vengeance blood which plays Emeralda and a few other decks. 

2. Ipiria is 5pp - not 8pp. One of the biggest issues with Loki is that you have to save an evolve and kill something and you might die anyway. In the case of Ipiria you can use Shamu's Gaze and Fairy Yawn alongside it and lock the board - no Evo is required. 

3. It punches through damage reduction effects like Alexiel far better. 

4. Combo pieces can be used much earlier if it suits the matchup. 

5. You don't have to worry about keeping a large handsize. 

 

well fairy Ookami is more like aggro-sword Albert than OTK anyway.. go aggro fairy early game then suddenly launch a powerful Fairy Dragon catapult by turn 7 beyond as finisher,, even without double attack it should be enough if you've used tons of fairies for aggro.

Let's see what the meta has to offer.. if Tenko shrine is out of control I'm afraid the meta would be ultra tough against this type of deck.. at least it seems decent against midswords

Edited by Hikaru

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Just now, Hikaru said:

well fairy Ookami is more like aggro-sword Albert than OTK anyway.. go aggro fairy early game then suddenly launch a powerful Fairy Dragon catapult by turn 7 beyond as finisher,, even without double attack it should be enough if you've used tons of fairies for aggro.

Let's see what the meta has to offer.. if Tenko shrine is out of control I'm afraid this deck would be ultra tough against this type of deck.. at least it seems decent against midswords

Oooh I'm well aware about Okami Dragon. I was one of the brave few who laddered with it. I know its weaknesses and I don't think Korwa is gonna fix it. 

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All I can say really, is if you give this n OTK, I salute you, you absolute madman xD 

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Of note: Devil Flower and Seraphic Blade are each 2 of and the deck can kill in one turn. If I refine it, it actually had the potential to prey on Tenko rather than lose to it. Remember that Devil Flower breaks amulets of any cost. And L. Fighter gains rush and bane simply from bouncing and replaying Brambles or Fairy Refuge. 

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2 minutes ago, Othello said:

All I can say really, is if you give this n OTK, I salute you, you absolute madman xD 

Thank you, thank you. I strongly believe I can make it happen. It just needs tweaking. 

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7 minutes ago, Karahi said:

Oooh I'm well aware about Okami Dragon. I was one of the brave few who laddered with it. I know its weaknesses and I don't think Korwa is gonna fix it. 

I don't know that there's idiot soul around here that actually play catapult dragon in ladder.. lol

4 minutes ago, Karahi said:

Of note: Devil Flower and Seraphic Blade are each 2 of and the deck can kill in one turn. If I refine it, it actually had the potential to prey on Tenko rather than lose to it. Remember that Devil Flower breaks amulets of any cost. And L. Fighter gains rush and bane simply from bouncing and replaying Brambles or Fairy Refuge. 

From Tenko player PoV If you have to use Seraphic on Tenko then probably it's okay but the Devil flower reprint is plain nightmare.. I always had an eye for that cards since long ago but devil flower really is scary in rotation..

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9 minutes ago, Hikaru said:

I don't know that there's idiot soul around here that actually play catapult dragon in ladder.. lol

From Tenko player PoV If you have to use Seraphic on Tenko then probably it's okay but the Devil flower reprint is plain nightmare.. I always had an eye for that cards since long ago but devil flower really is scary in rotation..

It was actually pretty good tbh. The problem with it is this: dealing chip damage, playing lots of Fairies for no good reason, trying to control board and draw your Okami and dragons is next to impossible to do all at the same time and you frequently fall just short of lethal a turn too late. Some of the new cards are very appealing to bring Okami Dragon up a few notches and it also helps that problem cards are rotating out. So that's certainly something I'll experiment with given that Fairy dragon is my fav Forest leg. 

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