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HollowShadow

Removal Back!

10 posts in this topic

after a lot of playtest i, a very main in this class, can conclude that after Zeus rotates shadowcraft will be a trash tier but not trash tier like blood or even sword before Edgybreak. I am calling it this class will be the WORSE class in the game, actually unplayable if dont get a replacement for some of this cards:

Eachtar (keeping midrange alive)

Zeus (Resurrection becoming the new flag deck)

Lurching, Little SQ, Necroass Waifu, Zombie party.

Cerberus cause i want to use ma waifu leader with her presence on board too.

 

Shadowcraft need cheap removal, that is a fact and right now we dont have ANY viable option to acomplish this. Throth Curse? bad card, useless without board presence, all the skeleton generator are rotation. Skeleton ring becomes trash for 3 PPs with not follow ups. 4PP followers? only Ceres, Ceres is useless by herself in alot of board states at 4. Can someone plz name a good 4PP follower in shadowcraft right now? not right?. Actually there is not good followers or spell for shadowcraft on 1-3-4(Ceres aside and i can tell to everyone ceres is NOT a good card, the DONT CARRY GAMES she DONT PUSH DAMAGES she is only good being hard to kill and trading, without a board to get damage both things are useless)-7-9-10 spots. You know how BAD is that? you cant play control with a class that ton get value over turn 8 or latter. You cant play midrange if you cant play on the curve, there is too much holes in Shadowcraft curve after Tempest of the gods rotates that is almost imposible even going for the Aisha plan.

 

Resurrec Shadow is only a thing cause we still have Little SQ and a lot of tricks from Tempest of the gods, not just Zeus, that buy time and push damage at same. Without this tricks the deck gameplan is suicide just suicide EVEN with a good target to resurrect. So what we do with this class? I repeat atleast blood has a pretty solid combo with jorm and in other hand they have the OldBloodKing, cards that win games by themself. Ceredwin Isnt am excellent turn 6 (she actually could be a 7/7 and she will not be problematic at all). And throw skull prince lose all the senses without eachtar. More than that all the shadow package lose all the senses without buffers. I need to recall that Orthrus is rotating too?---come on----how the card pool can push damage without buff?

 

I am really wishing to see what Cygames have in mind to shadowcraft cause right now this class offers nothing that other classes can not do better. And the things that this class do better than any other (cheap hard removal, stricky boards, a lot of options to push damage on open ward board states) are going to disappear. We are calling that "midrange shadow" will die but actually after try other type of decks and that stuff...all the shadow package except maybe Dark Alice have not senses in any style that you want to try right now. This is probably the worse losing in rotation at the moment i really think not other class will lose so much power in all their decks. Not even Haven after lose Themis for the 3 turns stall play.

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In terms of removal you're forgetting Undying Resentment, which is both in the basic set and still sees play for players that want more than 3 copies of Zombie Party or for players that are using it for some weird necromancy synergies.

For 4-drops, we have Playful Necromancer and Hell's Unleasher, both of which have seen play in the past (Playful as a tempo evolve that could push face damage in aggro and Unleasher as a 4-drop for Nepthys pulls in 2-4-7-8 Nepthys Shadow lists or as a 1-of in Death's Ledger/Nepthys hybrids for more consistent Lich generation). Obviously aggro Shadow is going to need some more support if it's going to be competitive next expansion, but there's still good 4-drops that could appear in decklists with the right support. I was also going to mention Orthrus and Prince Catacomb, but those are rotating out next expansion so they don't really count for the point you're making.

I think you're right on Shadowcraft being among the worst classes next expansion, along with Dragon and, to a lesser extent, Blood. A good chunk of the tools those three classes have right now were introduced in Tempest of the Gods, and none of them are doing particularly amazing right now either. 

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6 minutes ago, Aru're said:

In terms of removal you're forgetting Undying Resentment, which is both in the basic set and still sees play for players that want more than 3 copies of Zombie Party or for players that are using it for some weird necromancy synergies.

For 4-drops, we have Playful Necromancer and Hell's Unleasher, both of which have seen play in the past (Playful as a tempo evolve that could push face damage in aggro and Unleasher as a 4-drop for Nepthys pulls in 2-4-7-8 Nepthys Shadow lists or as a 1-of in Death's Ledger/Nepthys hybrids for more consistent Lich generation). Obviously aggro Shadow is going to need some more support if it's going to be competitive next expansion, but there's still good 4-drops that could appear in decklists with the right support. I was also going to mention Orthrus and Prince Catacomb, but those are rotating out next expansion so they don't really count for the point you're making.

I think you're right on Shadowcraft being among the worst classes next expansion, along with Dragon and, to a lesser extent, Blood. A good chunk of the tools those three classes have right now were introduced in Tempest of the Gods, and none of them are doing particularly amazing right now either. 

well yeah the problem is still that Playful is atleast as good as catacomb cause She can trade 2 targets instead of just 1 but you cant retain the bodys that she generates cause are ghost. So she fix more in aggro builts by far.Then again 1 problem, aggro shadow dont have a true finisher in rotation except Dark alice in some weird neutral-ghost matters "aggro" deck that wants to win on 8? dont see that being pretty good. Sometimes i wish the Mail effect was not a fanfare so you can resurrec the mail with the attack bonus that will be sooo nice as a finisher.

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I wanna bet about 100 dollars that Reanimate thing is going to be a massive flop.Feels like it.

And iuhh...push back aggro shadow in the meantime. It is fairly lackluster since prince and reaper nerf bat..

Sad to see this unique class going down.

Edited by Greevilz

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I totaly agree shadow need removals , specialy in the Meta in rotation ,

the other problem its the new expansion dont give good answer vs the others decks, 

i have do différents tests with mid range and the only one card of DB  i use , its Ceridwenn but i  keep the slot for  Prince skeleton because the damages and skeleton summon work, for me better, but thats a good cards and versatil

différents DB shadow cards opinions: 

 

Michievous spirit : necro cost too higher, i neeed my necro for others cards, must be 1/2 , for this reason goblin better

 

orator to the bones : must be 2/1 maybe, not a bad cards but a little too weak early game to be honestly good , vs snow white  etc and rush 2 cost of others classes

 

big soul hunter: always i have take for test, he was a dead cards, no enough necro wenn i need or enough necro but i need for aisha or eachtar... necro cost must be cut or lowed...

 

ceridwenn, with the damage spell its good but burial rite can destroy your hand if bad draw etc and 5 damages a little to low in this meta, but good card maybe change the 5 damage for destroy or more damages minus 6 

 

 

 

 

 

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Can’t say I really know how shadows gonna hold up, I’ve more or less only been running hinterland PTP, rather fun deck, but it’s been a while since I invested into Shadowcraft, no more Nephy. :c 

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I know this is a Shadowcraft discussion, but wasn't pre-brambles Forest the absolute WORST class in the game?

Now back to the point. I am super worried that they are gonna make shadow the old forest... which I am really salty about because I invested my soul (not my heart, that goes to rune) into this class, and if they make it die, i will never come back. I just checked every card Shadow is losing next rotation, and the situation is super ****ing grim. Up to 8! playable cards that shadow can use are going, which are spread out through various decks, and 4 (well 5 if you count Zeus) of them are removal of some kind. That is obsolutely nuts. What we are getting left with is, nothing. 3 good 2 drops, nothing in the middle, and lategame is destroyed if you dont run Hinderland memes.

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40 minutes ago, Alexx55 said:

I know this is a Shadowcraft discussion, but wasn't pre-brambles Forest the absolute WORST class in the game?

Now back to the point. I am super worried that they are gonna make shadow the old forest... which I am really salty about because I invested my soul (not my heart, that goes to rune) into this class, and if they make it die, i will never come back. I just checked every card Shadow is losing next rotation, and the situation is super ****ing grim. Up to 8! playable cards that shadow can use are going, which are spread out through various decks, and 4 (well 5 if you count Zeus) of them are removal of some kind. That is obsolutely nuts. What we are getting left with is, nothing. 3 good 2 drops, nothing in the middle, and lategame is destroyed if you dont run Hinderland memes.

Well back then i remember at DE meta, shadow is tier 3 deck and i keep matching against ptp forest (which is a tier 1 deck back then ) ,my midrange shadow that run  mordecai, lord of flies  and tyrant is my wincon that time (i even love when i had 3 mordecais and 2 urd in play against those deck . And everyone didnt care bout shadow that time lel , and then when eachtar hit,  everyone goes insane to pls nerf eachtar , and now we looking at meta nowaday , i barely happy with shadow now . Its just too weak somehow 

(Next rotation shadow will lost zeus , eachtar , catacomb , thane , zompa, which is the main core of the deck of midrange and reanimate shadow , if shadow will get nothing next expact well then we gonna see shadow go hiatus again then )

Edited by Void

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1 hour ago, Void said:

Well back then i remember at DE meta, shadow is tier 3 deck and i keep matching against ptp forest (which is a tier 1 deck back then ) ,my midrange shadow that run  mordecai, lord of flies  and tyrant is my wincon that time (i even love when i had 3 mordecais and 2 urd in play against those deck . And everyone didnt care bout shadow that time lel , and then when eachtar hit,  everyone goes insane to pls nerf eachtar , and now we looking at meta nowaday , i barely happy with shadow now . Its just too weak somehow 

(Next rotation shadow will lost zeus , eachtar , catacomb , thane , zompa, which is the main core of the deck of midrange and reanimate shadow , if shadow will get nothing next expact well then we gonna see shadow go hiatus again then )

Oh right the DE meta. I guess forest died around the release of Bahamut? So every class had a way to remove PTP and leave the opponent without wincon that Forest became ****. And believe me, pre-rotation i ran 2 fly lords in my deck, freakin awesome card.

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7 hours ago, Alexx55 said:

Oh right the DE meta. I guess forest died around the release of Bahamut? So every class had a way to remove PTP and leave the opponent without wincon that Forest became ****. And believe me, pre-rotation i ran 2 fly lords in my deck, freakin awesome card.

In Rise of Bahamut, the meta was too fast for PtP Forest to work on top of the fact that Forestcraft apparently had some cards nerfed in DE (I wasn't around for DE, but I ended up researching the nerfs from then). Every class already had ways to remove PtP in Execution, but PtP Forest could still win because the deck ran Rhinoceroach as an alternative win condition.

Forest wasn't even bad in Rise of Bahamut. They had the best deck in the game in Roach Forest, and it wasn't until the Goblin Mage nerf during that expansion that Forestcraft became bad.

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