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midgardsormr

CG Rotation - Control (wallet) Forest

45 posts in this topic

First iteration of the deck

Summoning here those who might be interested: @Othello, @Dergonu, @Karahi@Hikaru.

Control Forest seems a good deck right now. I know, it's only day 1, but still... Considering that usually aggro decks run rampant at the beginning of every new season, it's encouraging.

Screenshot_2017-12-29-22-10-01.thumb.png.d6e7ea12a8644820cf9a321fe6e4e71a.png

I have a good ~80% winrate. Weaknesses are mostly Vengeance Blood and Queen Azi OTK: the first one because they can develop a big board very early in the game, that you're unable to clear unless you have exactly the right answers in hand (usually t4 Aria into t5 2x Wisp + Crimsonbow + Insect); the second one because they can OTK you faster, cuz something something Ramp OP something something.

This list crushed all Portal, Sword and Shadow decks I've encountered so far. Aggro Forest as well. Blood matchups are variable, because I still don't know how to mulligan properly (against Vengeance you need the cards I mentioned before, against Jorm you need Lily). Ramp Dragon (non Queen) is ~50:50, depending on how fast they can ramp (as usual). Haven is a weird beast, but other than Aegis I haven't found a real "archetype" out there yet, just a bunch of cards put together somehow. You're heavily favoured against Aegis ofc.

 

Quick explanation of my choices:

- Barrage + Torrent: mandatory cheap bounces for all your good fanfares + good control tools. Staples. Torrent might be tricky to use during midgame due to its enhance, but it's a necessary evil. Also, Torrent on Grove against aggro is a big middle-finger, so satisfying... xD

- Grove + Whisperer: hand fillers that also give you fodder for Insects and Crimsonbow Elves. Grove is also a decent anti-aggro card (even if sometimes RNG is real, alas).

- Lily: negates Last Words and is versatile. Also, good bounce target if needed. You could add an extra copy if needed.

- Insect: MVP number 1. Do you remember Soulsquasher pre-nerf power level? This is even better, thanks to its versatility. Can be used as early removal with body attached against aggro, or as board clear later if you play it with Crimsonbow or some bounces. Evo saver. Also, pseudo-ward cuz the opponent is usually scared of bounces. It's just like IRL: "me see roach, me spat roach".

- Purehearted Singer + Venus: cuz card draw is good. Venus is bonkers in this deck, but I still don't know if including 3 copies is the right choice, though. You only need one, extra copies become clunky quite easily.

- Crimsonbow: MVP number 2. Her versatility is simply amazing. She's a 2/3 on t3 in a pinch, a decent t4 evo target and a t5-6 board clear. I'm going to include 3x.

- Aria: fodder generator for all your lategame stuff, be them Insect/Crimsonbow clears or Venus + draw. 2x should be enough though. Also, she can refill your hand just before your Elephant turns, if needed. Sweet.

- Wardens: super versatile finishers/midgame wards.

- Aerin + Elf Queen: defensive tools and midgame threats. I still need to find the right balance here though. Might want to cut one of them.

- Cassiopeia: thanks to all the fairy generators and card draw, she's usually a super useful 8-damage-gatling on turn 6. Clears most of the boards on her own, sometimes with no evo.

- Wolf + Elephant: your combo finishersTM. You can win without the combo, but combo is just waaaaay more fun. B|

 

Other cards I'm experimenting with:

- Lilac: she usually can get some chip damage in because players don't want to trade into her, but here chip damage isn't a priority in this deck. Also, weak against Portal and is evo hungry. Probably Lily is better.

- Vist: a good versatile card that really helped me to stop aggression on turns 7+, especially against Dragon (e.g. Cassy + Vist on t7), but I don't know what to cut to make room. If Dragon becomes prevalent he might need to be included somehow though.

- Rayne: meh, since she's evo hungry. Insect is better.

- Fall from Grace: good Swiss army knife, but with Lily it's not mandatory. Could be useful as a tech (e.g. against Cannon Sword).

- Spring Green Protection: in the early game the buff goes wasted most of the times since you're not aggro, so I don't know if it's worth the inclusion.

 

Comments and suggestions are welcome. :)

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I’m kinda surprised at no Brambles. Yeah fire Grove is nice it pings a random enemy follower for 1 turn 3 (or later depending on when you play it, but considering brambles also deals +1 damage on clash, I’m not sure what purpose it serves since either way, you generate two fairies, over all though, A+ would certainly give it a go if I wasn’t so engrossed in the shiny new Portalcraft atm. xD 

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Nice.

I've been spending the past day making unlimited decks. Now I have a rotation deck, yay. :P (And an excuse to use my animated Insect King. Wait, just checked, did they call him Insect "Lord" in the English version? B-But his JP card says king... HE IS A KING, DAMNIT!)

*Cough* Anyways... I'll test out the deck and tell you what I think. (/・ω・)/

Edited by Dergonu

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Y'see, this seems a lot better than the deck I've been experimenting with. I've been trying to make buffs throughout work with the Wolf/Elephant combo but there's some troubles. Fita ends up being the primary, primary, primary target and building a support around her takes up some serious deck space which detracts from fairy gen and removal options (couldn't easily fit in my Cassiopeias.) Purehearted is awkward with its stats but it's still the best card draw after all. There's also the problem that you can just never play Fita without buffing her the same turn because no one ever, ever, ever lets her live to the next one, no matter what. I'm gonna try out this deck a bit. It's even more control oriented than mine, and that sounds fun! And is Firesprite really that great? I suppose it's best to try it out anyway, hunh? 

 

EDIT: Tried it out after making it. Not super sure about the Grove yet but perhaps its use will show in time. I took out the Venus because keeping my handsize in check was becoming a constant struggle. No Elf Queen in my possession right now but Fairy Beast certainly gets the job done (if you don't mind Unlimited) when your hand size is almost constantly maxed out. 

Edited by Karahi

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@Othello, no Brambles because you don't need them. I forgot to mention them in the experimenting list. :P

Brambles help you while trading, but you also need some 1pp drop to make them work properly, and I didn't include any. It's the same reason I didn't include Spring Green Protection. Whisperer is slightly better, because you have so much removal on bodies that you really don't care. xD

@Dergonu, I'd call him "Removeroach". xD

@Karahi, Elf Queen is not mandatory at all. I might cut her as well. I'm still trying to figure out the best build. Grove is a bit lackluster, I must admit, but helps you keeping your hand size big. Probably Happy Pig is better as control tool, but he doesn't have synergy with the rest of the deck and he's evo hungry if you really need his heal.

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@midgardsormr oh don’t get me wrong, I can understand that for combo purposes 1pp >2pp, just, idk, fundamentally in my head brambles seems like the better choice xD guess it’s up to preference. Did fight my first buff forest today though, was a fun match, but they were most displeased.... they got Saha-isra’d Twice, then I just dropped and evo it turn 9.... poor fairies. (Also I may be a heretic....most of the time today, it’s been preferable to drop Isra over Aegis, wtf) 

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1 hour ago, midgardsormr said:

@Othello, no Brambles because you don't need them. I forgot to mention them in the experimenting list. :P

Brambles help you while trading, but you also need some 1pp drop to make them work properly, and I didn't include any. It's the same reason I didn't include Spring Green Protection. Whisperer is slightly better, because you have so much removal on bodies that you really don't care. xD

@Dergonu, I'd call him "Removeroach". xD

@Karahi, Elf Queen is not mandatory at all. I might cut her as well. I'm still trying to figure out the best build. Grove is a bit lackluster, I must admit, but helps you keeping your hand size big. Probably Happy Pig is better as control tool, but he doesn't have synergy with the rest of the deck and he's evo hungry if you really need his heal.

Removeroach. lol. The pest becomes the pesticide. I've found good ol' Water Fairy to be working fine in the grove slot. It's one less fairy in hand but it's good. Yeah, Elf Queen may not be the way to go I think either. Actually went with three Cassiopeia and I must say, this deck can wreck. Just went up against Midrange Shadow (I'm in A rank) and I kept his board clean every single turn. Summoned 3 Zombies with Zombie Party, Cassio'd them. Very next turn he summons Eachter with nothing on board. lol. He milled his hand trying to make something stick but it just wasn't happening and he was drawing cards too. This deck is nasty af. 

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Very Nice.  Crimsonbow is insane.  Just amazing card.  I'm running a more aggro build than you are, (As I don't have any copies of Elephant at all) Fairy Torrent is a card i need to make still.

I feel Venus might be a one of.  She's handy, but the second festival is annoying.  I like Aerin in this build.  It feels better to me.  I think you have enough individual removal.  .   You could add the 4 drop that makes the ivory spellbomb for one.  You combo enough and that kind of chip damage w/control has enough merit to be in the deck.

I love Insect Lord too by the way.  Great card.  

Edited by jpants

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Removal roach seems better than I thought but sadly I only have single copy of each of the legendary and my vial are split between mysteria and Artifact (cuz for some reason I pulled 3 deus sex) deck..

every rotation deck seems to be pretty expensive, I did not expected this from the promotional keyword "Beginner friendly"

currently building buff assault neutral fairy but I really need that Fairy wisp.. sigh.

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3 hours ago, Hikaru said:

Removal roach seems better than I thought but sadly I only have single copy of each of the legendary and my vial are split between mysteria and Artifact (cuz for some reason I pulled 3 deus sex) deck..

every rotation deck seems to be pretty expensive, I did not expected this from the promotional keyword "Beginner friendly"

currently building buff assault neutral fairy but I really need that Fairy wisp.. sigh.

Tried Mysteria deck myself... seems crap to me. :|

But aggro Forest doesn't really need Aria, it should work well with no legendaries at all.

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30 minutes ago, midgardsormr said:

Tried Mysteria deck myself... seems crap to me. :|

But aggro Forest doesn't really need Aria, it should work well with no legendaries at all.

Only reason to run Aria in Aggro forest would be to basically board flood and elf song all at once, can’t see much else that you’d use her for in Aggro forest. *shrugs* but imma have to agree on Mysteria, it seems very lacklustre, like it runs out of fuel, but then you can’t regain more fuel because it all requires combing more mysteria together. 

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2 hours ago, Othello said:

Only reason to run Aria in Aggro forest would be to basically board flood and elf song all at once, can’t see much else that you’d use her for in Aggro forest. *shrugs* but imma have to agree on Mysteria, it seems very lacklustre, like it runs out of fuel, but then you can’t regain more fuel because it all requires combing more mysteria together. 

^ this, Aria is optional. And yeah, don't waste vials on Mysteria stuff for the moment, it's really a sub-par deck.

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9 hours ago, midgardsormr said:

Tried Mysteria deck myself... seems crap to me. :|

Funny thing is that you absolutely don't wanna play any of chronogenesis Mysteria card except Mysteria magic founder and StuCo Hannah, the other are pure ****. also that deck seems to be build to be fused with Daria but for spell rather than creature spawn.. on Rotation the game tempo is slow enough that you could easily reach turn 10 and go for massive burn.

My list even run some Stella and Illusionist and could win 8 out of 10 match.. but shadow utterly trample me with their sticky board, the loss of petrifaction hurts so I've been running 2 FfG.. turn 10 chain lighting can practically wipe enemy in 2 turns from full HP..  problem is draw rate so I've tried to use that 7pp destroy and draw cards which is great late game

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So after a lot of experimentation I've found that Brambles is definitely the way to go with this deck rather than Grove. It's difficult finding something good to play turn 1 without sacrificing something important for the latter game. Still, I've found a much better winrate by going a little more aggressive to ensure an Elephant lethal. White Wolf is easy to play around for smart players I've found so it's important to make sure you can finish things by playing Elephant straight. Brambles helps with this by giving you some measure of board protection so you can go face /just a little bit more/. It also just messes Portal up about as much as you can mess Portal up. Puppets and Artifacts just can't handle the Brambles man. Might be less useful once the Portal fever dies down but obviously still good. 

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3 hours ago, Karahi said:

So after a lot of experimentation I've found that Brambles is definitely the way to go with this deck rather than Grove. It's difficult finding something good to play turn 1 without sacrificing something important for the latter game. Still, I've found a much better winrate by going a little more aggressive to ensure an Elephant lethal. White Wolf is easy to play around for smart players I've found so it's important to make sure you can finish things by playing Elephant straight. Brambles helps with this by giving you some measure of board protection so you can go face /just a little bit more/. It also just messes Portal up about as much as you can mess Portal up. Puppets and Artifacts just can't handle the Brambles man. Might be less useful once the Portal fever dies down but obviously still good. 

I'll try Brambles instead of Grove then. Up to now Brambles were the replacement for Whisperer in my experiments. My concern is having no 1pp drop to target on turn 2 with Barrage. But for the moment the meta is slow enough, it's not a big deal.

I also replaced Aria, she simply didn't do enough, and I never had hand size issues, so I included +1 Crimsonbow +1 Wolf. I'm trying to experiment including 2x Vist as well. That card is a late game lifesaver against Dragon and Temple Haven.

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11 minutes ago, midgardsormr said:

I'll try Brambles instead of Grove then. Up to now Brambles were the replacement for Whisperer in my experiments. My concern is having no 1pp drop to target on turn 2 with Barrage. But for the moment the meta is slow enough, it's not a big deal.

I also replaced Aria, she simply didn't do enough, and I never had hand size issues, so I included +1 Crimsonbow +1 Wolf. I'm trying to experiment including 2x Vist as well. That card is a late game lifesaver against Dragon and Temple Haven.

.......... told you brambles was better......... :P I feel slightly more validated in my ability to play forest with its whole 2 ranked wins! Ahhh I’m joking. xD seriously though, what 1 drops are there that you need to worry about? Perseus, and Goblin? And replaced Aria? Hmm I guess you don’t really need the 0pp wisps when Control forest is more just about the hand size. 

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1 hour ago, Othello said:

.......... told you brambles was better......... :P I feel slightly more validated in my ability to play forest with its whole 2 ranked wins! Ahhh I’m joking. xD seriously though, what 1 drops are there that you need to worry about? Perseus, and Goblin? And replaced Aria? Hmm I guess you don’t really need the 0pp wisps when Control forest is more just about the hand size. 

When you go second, sometime it's good to have 1pp fodder for Barrage (e.g. against Temple Haven, t1 Temple into t2 Priestess can be brutal). And 1pp stuff is useful to combo with Insect. These are the main reasons why I run Grove. The 1 ping damage is just icing on the cake, even if it proved to be useful against aggro.

Aria was underwhelming in this list, I usually used her just as a ram to take down dudes during the midgame, but more often than not I needed to waste Wisps to avoid burning cards. I think I'll try to include Vists instead. A 0pp Vist can be dropped on turn 10 after a naked Elephant, making it a real threat for the following turn as well. And a 2/5 on t4 could always be useful against aggro.

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Something else important to note is that, at least with the way I've been playing, the deck archetype is surprisingly capable at aggression throughout. I've been flooding the board with fairies and using Insect Lord for early removal, Evo saving and extra board flood. In this meta, it's easy to keep them on board and do lots of chip damage. With this deck, it's easy to remove the things you want to remove without too much trading. Brambles additionally makes Crimsonbow Elf that much better because it helps to deal with those pesky cheap 2/3s and things like Halo Golem which are so prevalent right now (after all, they go down to 1 defence which is instakill territory for one Brambles.) Honestly, I've been winning a lot of games just by aggroing people and removing everything they have until they surrender. They either surrender turn 7 just from being put in such bad situations all game or surrender as soon as White Wolf dies and they know Elephant will kill them the very next turn. Haha, it's fantastic.

 

I feel there's still room for refinement though to improve consistency. Bricking and ending up with nothing but Aerins and Wolves in your starting hand is pretty much a death sentence unless you draw perfectly every turn after. I'll let you know if I find a good way to trim a bit of the clunkier stuff but...I don't know. It's pretty difficult. 

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12 minutes ago, midgardsormr said:

When you go second, sometime it's good to have 1pp fodder for Barrage (e.g. against Temple Haven, t1 Temple into t2 Priestess can be brutal). And 1pp stuff is useful to combo with Insect. These are the main reasons why I run Grove. The 1 ping damage is just icing on the cake, even if it proved to be useful against aggro.

Aria was underwhelming in this list, I usually used her just as a ram to take down dudes during the midgame, but more often than not I needed to waste Wisps to avoid burning cards. I think I'll try to include Vists instead. A 0pp Vist can be dropped on turn 10 after a naked Elephant, making it a real threat for the following turn as well. And a 2/5 on t4 could always be useful against aggro.

Wait, I only just realized....Vist just continues to be cost reduced?? It's not a one time thing? It can be 0?!

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Just now, Karahi said:

Wait, I only just realized....Vist just continues to be cost reduced?? It's not a one time thing? It can be 0?!

Yes, that's why he's good when the game goes into late game territory.

3 minutes ago, Karahi said:

Something else important to note is that, at least with the way I've been playing, the deck archetype is surprisingly capable at aggression throughout. I've been flooding the board with fairies and using Insect Lord for early removal, Evo saving and extra board flood. In this meta, it's easy to keep them on board and do lots of chip damage. With this deck, it's easy to remove the things you want to remove without too much trading. Brambles additionally makes Crimsonbow Elf that much better because it helps to deal with those pesky cheap 2/3s and things like Halo Golem which are so prevalent right now (after all, they go down to 1 defence which is instakill territory for one Brambles.) Honestly, I've been winning a lot of games just by aggroing people and removing everything they have until they surrender. They either surrender turn 7 just from being put in such bad situations all game or surrender as soon as White Wolf dies and they know Elephant will kill them the very next turn. Haha, it's fantastic.

 

I feel there's still room for refinement though to improve consistency. Bricking and ending up with nothing but Aerins and Wolves in your starting hand is pretty much a death sentence unless you draw perfectly every turn after. I'll let you know if I find a good way to trim a bit of the clunkier stuff but...I don't know. It's pretty difficult. 

I'm actually thinking of removing Wolves altogether. I've won most of my games through turn 10 Wardens into turn 11 Elephant. But I need to better evaluate the situation. The combo is handy against other control decks, it all depends on the meta. If control isn't that prevalent, then Wolf becomes superfluous.

My heart cries though, I love Wolves. :/

 

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30 minutes ago, midgardsormr said:

When you go second, sometime it's good to have 1pp fodder for Barrage (e.g. against Temple Haven, t1 Temple into t2 Priestess can be brutal). And 1pp stuff is useful to combo with Insect. These are the main reasons why I run Grove. The 1 ping damage is just icing on the cake, even if it proved to be useful against aggro.

Aria was underwhelming in this list, I usually used her just as a ram to take down dudes during the midgame, but more often than not I needed to waste Wisps to avoid burning cards. I think I'll try to include Vists instead. A 0pp Vist can be dropped on turn 10 after a naked Elephant, making it a real threat for the following turn as well. And a 2/5 on t4 could always be useful against aggro.

Don’t see why not, after all, Rahab is dropped on curve vs aggro t3/4 and guess ye right, xD im not a huge fan of Summit Temple because people can’t seem to play it properly, least out of the few Havens I’ve seen running it, 

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I’ve been running this http://goo.gl/7XJbfg and doing pretty well with it in master ranks. I run spring green and brambles even tho no one drop just to bounce them back in my hand. The rotation meta is not that aggressive so you don’t need a 1 drop most matches, the real fun begins at turn 3 -4.

I’m surprised that most people don’t run Baha in their list it’s just an amazing card now and I won many games with it. The other stuff like Weald and Gourmet are run just to keep hand size up, I always, always have a 9/9 ele on turn 10.

Some of my choices don’t seem to be efficient perhaps there is better but the deck is working for me and until I’m getting beat then I’ll stick to those choices.

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1 hour ago, Gunz said:

I’ve been running this http://goo.gl/7XJbfg and doing pretty well with it in master ranks. I run spring green and brambles even tho no one drop just to bounce them back in my hand. The rotation meta is not that aggressive so you don’t need a 1 drop most matches, the real fun begins at turn 3 -4.

I’m surprised that most people don’t run Baha in their list it’s just an amazing card now and I won many games with it. The other stuff like Weald and Gourmet are run just to keep hand size up, I always, always have a 9/9 ele on turn 10.

Some of my choices don’t seem to be efficient perhaps there is better but the deck is working for me and until I’m getting beat then I’ll stick to those choices.

Uhm, interesting list. :)

It's a lot more control-ish than mine. I don't run Baha just because I don't need him: Insects and Crimsonbow are more than enough to keep wide boards in check. And those which cannot be kept in check by those (e.g. Daria vomit), cannot be managed by Baha either (he comes too late).

Is Lilac really necessary? Why not Crimsonbow instead?

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I don’t have them (crimson bow or insect lord) 😭😭😭

lilac to be honest hasn’t really saved me in any game so maybe could be cut. I’ll look into crafting one or two of the above thanks

Baha comes late but it’s a soul crusher trust me😈

Edited by Gunz

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