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Unryuu

Best Girl Neph

133 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Ok, to be honest best girl is actually Roland :D

But nonetheless ... despite all the Eachtar Shadow and tempo Mid decks around for whichever class happened to be pushed the most, I'm sure there are some Shadow mains out there like myself who have nothing but appreciation for all those classic, interactive and interesting decks built on pure class mechanics, like Neph, Elana, Seraph. I want them to be viable again on ladder; hopefully the new nerfs will help a little.

So with Nephy's new art in mind, here's the Neph deck I've been using for about 50% of all my wins on the way up to A3.

It's currently tech'd for the tempo Blood meta from last month, but that ToS, Unicas can go if the meta shifts toward Control, and we can add a 3rd Nephy.

I know there are a lot of forumers out there who've been waiting for a Nephy meta, so come out and let's talk. My deck's up there for comments as a starter, but anything on classic Control Shadow flies. Who runs Odile? Does anyone use Ded Moroz?

Edited by Unryuu

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Your Neps pulls 5 or 6 targets, also there is a pretty huge difference between droping kwavi and thane...

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Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, zzMedVeDzz said:

Your Neps pulls 5 or 6 targets, also there is a pretty huge difference between droping kwavi and thane...

Neph is targeted at the 2-3-4-7-8 slots, but due to exhaust (usually on the 2-slot, because I used to only run 3 x Corpse there), you're restricted to a 100% Morde by the time you're on 8pp.

This is because you usually mulligan for your Corpses to pull the Impious combos, and because your Ledger pulls are always targeted at the lower end of the curve. So on 8pp, Neph will pull 0-2 Liches, at least one utility trigger (either ward or Khawy), and always Morde. I usually save an evo for 8pp off the immense tempo from combos early, and drop Neph on a 1-follower field. If it's Khawy, I heal, if it's Thane, I use Morde evo, confident in the fact that with 1 Thane gone and the Neph exhaust, I'll be pretty consistent in pulling Khawy off the next Ledger I play. Moreover the evo isn't wasted, because they'll have to break your ward wall in Wight King to kill your followers.

There's not much difference in Khawy or Thane from hand on 7pp, either is just meant as a stall until you reach 8. Same effects, you're not really using Khawy for the heals here, just the stall.

Neph really isn't even the wincon in this deck, because you can sometimes win just off the tempo from Ledgers early. The nice part about this deck is that it's built in such a way that there is no setup needed for your finishers. You can all-out early and mid, which actually helps your Neph pulls, and then refill your entire board off either a Neph drop or Ledgers late. You have 2 Mordes, 2 Nephs, and 3 Ledgers, all of which can pull various finishers. You have the ability to replicate your Mordes, and proc your Khawys, off Urd.

This deck also has very nice consistency, because the 2 x or 1 x numbers mean you can sometimes count and know exactly what "RNG" will pull next. You also thin your deck, so that topdeck draws and Soul Conversion will always put (usually) removal spells or high-pp followers in your hand, the later the game is in.

Edited by Unryuu

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You know Balor desperately is waiting for Nephy to return his call :D

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Lol, poor Balor.  Remember the hype when he came out?  Yeah Neph possibility!  Bane, 3 damage AoE!  I can maybe count on my 2 hands the number of times I've run into him since his release.  

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Finally decided to go Shadow main yesterday.

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Neph >Roland, dont even pretend otherwise! 

Anyway, not a fan of that cheeky tech ToS in your deck. Its kind of a huge brick especially when you are already running resurrection (another brick without a good target) and so many high cost cards (comes with the territory of playing nep though) 

Personally I am really fond of playing with a more aggressive 2 drop line up to make up for her short comings early and mid game. Cards like Demon eater REALLY help boost consistency in getting your neps asap while making lurching corpse more consistent. 

infinite carrots are also really strong in this deck especially with all the sacrifice cards you are packing. 

 

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Poor Khawy...

23478, so you don't always get a 7 and even if you do its sometimes a Thane.

What has Khawy done to you to get this treatment?

 

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1 hour ago, Kharaxx said:

Poor Khawy...

23478, so you don't always get a 7 and even if you do its sometimes a Thane.

What has Khawy done to you to get this treatment?

 

Forget Khawy, Pretty Urd is just a flash in the pan :(

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I used to run Balor in this deck, I miss the 3-atk AoEs too. It used to be a little more of an everywincon fun deck, with double Burial Grounds, use of Charon, even 1 x Lord Atomy to proc your Burial Grounds + Attendants for an instant Turn 4 Neph equivalent.

You all are right, 23478 doesn't guarantee a Khawy. However, I find it very situational - a lot of the time I'm dropping Neph on an empty board, and/or the heals don't justify it. Moreover you have 3 x Khawy himself to draw, as well as a many ways to proc Khawy off Ledgers, so it's very rarely an issue that I need a heal and don't get it. Mostly I'm busy fighting for board control.

Moreover Urd is just too good early to pass over as a 4-drop in this one. I only win on Neph around 50% of the time - it's usually a win like 70% of the time if I get to drop her, and probably 40% of the time if I don't, which I suppose is actually better than the early game possibilities for most Neph decks because of Ledger.

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On 8/2/2017 at 6:33 AM, AAA said:

Finally decided to go Shadow main yesterday.

That's nice. Shadow is a solid choice to start playing with in SV, I picked that class up first too back in RoB.

I like to think of the classes in SV as a spectrum from Shadow - Dragon - Sword - Haven - Blood - Rune - Forest, where - with the exclusion of a few archetypes - left to right is a shift between the focus on board control vs. hand curation. So if you start from Shadow, you'll probably find classes up to Blood quite easy to pick up afterward ... then you can learn Rune/Forest later at your own pace.

The solidity of the class's cards, and the persistence of its board, make it a decent choice in almost every meta I've seen, except ... perhaps DShift or Seraph metas.

Look forward to when you get a few Legendaries and decks up and running.

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On 8/1/2017 at 5:33 PM, AAA said:

Finally decided to go Shadow main yesterday.

Agree with Unryuu.  Shadow is a great choice.  It is probably unmatched in variety.  King of memes (Deathly Tyrant, Haunted House, Atomy), one of the most interesting control decks (Nepthys), Midrange and Aggro shadow focused on board control and playing stuff on curve but with the added coolness of Cerby howl combos and last words.   You got combo, you got aggro, you got control, you got midrange, you have a second resource to manage (shadows).   It can do the new neutral thing pretty well too, or even do a cool hybrid with siren tears and last word followers.  Even Nepthys is split into Death ledger and standard which are very different.  

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Posted (edited)

I've tweaked my Neph variant for the current meta, this one just concentrates a little more on the pull.

Notice the 4pp slot is just 2 x Unleasher, so you're guaranteed at least 1 Lich off Neph. Moreover, the only 2pp followers are Corpses, so if you use Ledgers to exhaust that slot, you're automatically going to pull Morde. I had a decent game with this one, where 3 Neph in a row on T8, T9, T10 left me with 10 cards in the deck. That's some thin, and most impressively it also improves your Neph topdeck draw chance because all your other followers are getting pulled.

"This head can't be taken!"

This is the Mid Shadow deck I've been running as of late. It's the same removal-heavy core, with 2 x Highway to Hell tech'd in so that your Skeletons can assassinate that Sibyl :) Excuse the 1 x Cerb/Soulsquasher copies, I can't afford to run 2 x / 3 x quite yet. The Spectres function as insane taunts, and the most impressive piece of tech I've been able to use consistently in this build is Rise of the Dead ... because it means that you have effectively 5 x Eachtar/Thane to play with, and the first one you draw will be the only one you need. You can revive and play in the same turn starting from 9pp because both cards are absurdly cheap, and it also solves at least partially the issue of terrible topdecks for Mid Shadow late.

Did anyone say a tutor for Eachtar would be broken :D?

Think the only deck I've lost to since making the tweaks with Mid Shadow has been a weird ERune Control that ran around 5 copies of Caprice, Petrification, Calamitous, and other transform/banish tech (at least that I saw played), and then somehow topdecked a QotDS + Lucifer + DShift OTK combo without any carddraw (Fate's Hand, etc.) on Turn 10 :( Also Caprice'd my T8 Eachtar, or I'd have revived it with RotD and lethaled with the board that the last Eachtar left :D (I had Cerb's cards as well).

"Again ... again ..."

Edited by Unryuu

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I am a bigger fan of running styx as my "tutor" for eachtar. Sure she eats up 6 shadows but come late game you have PLENTY to spare in mid shadow.

Highway to hell is kind of an interesting choice but at the same time, I am not convinced mid-shadow really needs a card like it. 

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3 hours ago, Chappie said:

I am a bigger fan of running styx as my "tutor" for eachtar. Sure she eats up 6 shadows but come late game you have PLENTY to spare in mid shadow.

Highway to hell is kind of an interesting choice but at the same time, I am not convinced mid-shadow really needs a card like it. 

I suppose, but you can run short on shadows somewhat after repeated Eachtars. Moreover, Styx isn't much better than RotD in that she eats 6 shadows, for basically the advantage of a 2/2 body. But that 2/2 body doesn't help really, because you'll never play her early on curve, where it's most worth, and late she's just more fodder for their AoE. Maybe I'll run a 2-2 or 1-2 mix of both, and see how that fares on ladder. Thanks.

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Posted (edited)

Just met a Shadow player in A3 unranked, piloting a mirror build to me that was almost exactly the same as the original one I've posted here. I didn't see every card, of course, but I saw multiple copies of ZParty, Pact, Undying, Attendant, Unleasher, Ledger, Khawy, Morde, Death's Breath, Soul Conversion, that are reasonably niche choices when all put together.

Of course I wouldn't claim credit for what's probably their own work, but that match was at the very least ... interesting for me to see. Apparently this is what my Nephy looks like when played fully on curve. Lost because I didn't draw a Ledger pre-7 whilst they did, then drew multiple copies over the Khawy/Thane/Nephs I needed to win between Turns 8-10, but the double Ledgers pulled all my Nephs for some reason instead of Morde. Both of us had full hands of removal, and 1 Morde, but that was basically it for me, the rest was blank Nephy fodder.

Made myself feel a little better by crushing a Ramp Dragon afterward, spread 3 Liches on Turn 5 (T4 Ledger working its magic), and when they only killed 2, evo'd the 3rd one for 6/6 to face, then put it behind a solid on-curve wall of Death's Breath wards. The benefit of early Ledgers is that it almost guarantees a Turn 6 Death's Breath will have enough shadows to proc :D 

Edited by Unryuu

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6 hours ago, Unryuu said:

I suppose, but you can run short on shadows somewhat after repeated Eachtars. Moreover, Styx isn't much better than RotD in that she eats 6 shadows, for basically the advantage of a 2/2 body. But that 2/2 body doesn't help really, because you'll never play her early on curve, where it's most worth, and late she's just more fodder for their AoE. Maybe I'll run a 2-2 or 1-2 mix of both, and see how that fares on ladder. Thanks.

"you'll never play her early on curve"

Actually you are very wrong there. Early game yes, she is a vanilla 2/2 but so is soul squishier and nobody complains about her. She is ideally played late game but can also function mid game by getting back key 4 drops like assassin, orthrus or hells unleasher. (sometimes a lich too....) The idea here is that you are getting the benefits of the spell while still keeping stuff on the board. Rise from the grave is LITERALLY a brick without a good target but she can at least do something even without one. 

Not saying she should be a staple or anything mind you but I do recommend giving 1~2 copies a try. I am really fond of her but that shadow cost is intense and limits her potential. 

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Posted (edited)

On 8/3/2017 at 2:58 AM, Unryuu said:

That's nice. Shadow is a solid choice to start playing with in SV, I picked that class up first too back in RoB.

I like to think of the classes in SV as a spectrum from Shadow - Dragon - Sword - Haven - Blood - Rune - Forest, where - with the exclusion of a few archetypes - left to right is a shift between the focus on board control vs. hand curation. So if you start from Shadow, you'll probably find classes up to Blood quite easy to pick up afterward ... then you can learn Rune/Forest later at your own pace.

The solidity of the class's cards, and the persistence of its board, make it a decent choice in almost every meta I've seen, except ... perhaps DShift or Seraph metas.

Look forward to when you get a few Legendaries and decks up and running.

Thanks for your support.

Everything you're saying here is so true. After playing a "budget" version of your deck I know understand the archetypes. When I play knowing these archetypes it helps my strategy.

Here it is my "budget" deck inspired by you.
goo.gl/8YZ3og

Edited by AAA

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Posted (edited)

Just went on a 1500+ point rampage in A3, with this variant of Neph Shadow, built to kill tempo decks.

I estimate it had a ~80% winrate over around 20 games, in one 90 minute sitting.

So I took everyone's advice and made some important tech choices here. I chose to remove Pact because it's rare that a 3pp spell won't brick you, and instead added two copies of Tempest to increase your ability to wipe board past, usually, Turn 6 (Ledger generates insane shadows). Deck still plays the same, the use of Impious/Conversion to activate your Last Words fodder, you have decent carddraw, very good tempo removal. Your Ledger continues to pull only Liches or Corpses, and your Neph is nicely restricted now to a 100% Morde pull.

Works excellently against Neutral Sword, Neutral Rune, Daria Rune, Banner Sword, (depends) Ambush Sword (because your Corpses are untargeted), (depends) Mid Shadow, Ramp Dragon, Storm Dragon ... faced all of them in my 20 games, won those ... any deck that's not OTK Roach, Wolf Bolt, DShift or Aegis Haven, really, those are usually losses. Rather weak to Burn Rune, and Aggro Blood of any type (Carabosse, Bat, Vengeance, Neutral).

Edited by Unryuu

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2 minutes ago, Unryuu said:

Just went on a 1500+ point rampage in A3, with this variant of Neph Shadow, built to kill tempo decks.

I estimate it had a ~80% winrate over around 20 games, in one 90 minute sitting.

So I took everyone's advice and made some important tech choices here. I chose to remove Pact because it's rare that a 3pp spell won't brick you, and instead added two copies of Tempest to increase your ability to wipe board past, usually, Turn 6 (Ledger generates insane shadows). Deck still plays the same, the use of Impious/Conversion to activate your Last Words fodder, you have decent carddraw, very good tempo removal. Your Ledger continues to pull only Liches or Corpses, and your Neph is nicely restricted now to a 100% Morde pull.

Works excellently against Neutral Sword, Neutral Rune, (depends) Mid Shadow, Ramp Dragon, Storm Dragon ... any deck that's not OTK Roach, Wolf Bolt, DShift or Aegis Haven, really, those are usually losses. Rather weak to Burn Rune, and Aggro Blood of any type (Carabosse, Bat, Vengeance, Neutral).

Eh? Seems cool, but I do have to question how you get Neph to 100% only Mordes xD 

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1 minute ago, Othello said:

Eh? Seems cool, but I do have to question how you get Neph to 100% only Mordes xD 

Neph only pulls followers of different costs that aren't also named Nephy. Notice this deck only has followers, as in the classic Neph Shadow style, in the 2, 3, 7, 8 slots, which means every Neph pull is usually a Corpse, a Lich, a Khawy/Thane, and a Morde. So you're guaranteed a heal or a ward, plus a Morde, and usually at least 1 more removal or a Lich.

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1 minute ago, Unryuu said:

Neph only pulls followers of different costs that aren't also named Nephy. Notice this deck only has followers, as in the classic Neph Shadow style, in the 2, 3, 7, 8 slots, which means every Neph pull is usually a Corpse, a Lich, a Khawy/Thane, and a Morde. So you're guaranteed a heal or a ward, plus a Morde, and usually at least 1 more removal or a Lich.

Huh so that's how she actually works, I normally just get useless crap xD 

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Just now, Othello said:

Huh so that's how she actually works, I normally just get useless crap xD 

That's why Nephy decks are usually weak early, because they can't run all of the cool tempo plays like Odile or Necroassassin, which will screw up your fodder pool and dilute your Neph pulls ... often to the point where you should just play Mid Shadow with a Morde. You should build a Nephy deck sometime, it's really fun to pilot.

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1 minute ago, Unryuu said:

That's why Nephy decks are usually weak early, because they can't run all of the cool tempo plays like Odile or Necroassassin, which will screw up your fodder pool and dilute your Neph pulls ... often to the point where you should just play Mid Shadow with a Morde. You should build a Nephy deck sometime, it's really fun to pilot.

I do have a nephys deck, just tends to pull things I don't want xD like Grimnir 

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3 hours ago, Othello said:

I do have a nephys deck, just tends to pull things I don't want xD like Grimnir 

How many different costed followers you have?

That's why I always play 100% Morde, 100% Khawy in my Nep.

He has 100% Morde and either a Ward or Khawy, that's also fine.

I don't like 23478 lists, it's so tilting if you lost because Nep pulled the wrong cards.

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