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Morrigan

Wonderland Dreams Jabberflute

15 posts in this topic

Jabberflute

Have been tinkering with my old Dragon Flute deck since WD dropped, trying to include Jabber in the mix. The deck basically breaks down like this:

Early game is more of a control archetype, with damage spells like dragonnewt fist, blazing, and Fire lizard for ping. Mixed in with the usual Ramp suspects. Emissary is in the mix also for trying to draw Jabs or Forte (occassionally it draws Ebon or Gen which is eh)

Mid has Fervor, giving some draw and heals, hopefully nabbing Flute if it hasn't been grab already.

The big play comes after Overflow and Flute are out. Playing Hellfires on the board:

2pp 4/3 Rush. Generally holding onto Evo's for these if needed for clearing threats or Wards. Careful trading also sets up fodder for Jabberwock to come out who will pull out Gen/Forte/Ebon, giving some serious burst at decent value, and Ebon puts out a decent ward without triggering his fanfare.

Honestly there is not enough room for adding more cards that would help but so far it has had a few good winstreaks.

Still working at it, toying with the idea of Sib getting mixed in, but she may be too much of a clog. Good if I need the Ramp at t5, but if Jabber pulls her, the healing factor seems less of a benefit, over pulling any of the other 3.

Would love to here anyones takes or changes.

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5 minutes ago, midgardsormr said:

Uuuh, now THAT's an interesting deck.

Just a question: why Ebon and not Zeus?

I looked at Zeus and went with Ebon because if Emissary ends up pulling Ebon, I can drop him at t6, if it pulls Zeus he will sit in my hand until t9 and be a bit dead. In the end it was more of which one would have a better range of play.

xD I only work in Interesting.

Edited by Morrigan

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@Morrigan so from what I've been seeing, a lot of Jabberwocky decks are restricted to only Storm followers in their high-cost slots for some utility out of the Fanfare. But I was thinking, would it be possible to use Jabber as a straight tutor? For example, since the TOTG nerfs we've been unable to play Saha-Zell-Baha ... but what if Jabber were controlled to always pull Zell + Bahamut for Turn 7 13 damage face OTKs again?

Or for example, if you only had 3 x Israfil on the end curve of your deck, and Jabberwocky, and Tilting at Windmills on the field ... then Jabber would pull a literal OTK off just 2 followers for double Israfil to face.

Not super viable, to be sure. But hella fun.

Edited by Unryuu

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12 minutes ago, Unryuu said:

@Morrigan so from what I've been seeing, a lot of Jabberwocky decks are restricted to only Storm followers in their high-cost slots for some utility out of the Fanfare. But I was thinking, would it be possible to use Jabber as a straight tutor? For example, since the TOTG nerfs we've been unable to play Saha-Zell-Baha ... but what if Jabber were controlled to always pull Zell + Bahamut for Turn 7 13 damage face OTKs again?

Or for example, if you only had 3 x Israfil on the end curve of your deck, and Jabberwocky, and Tilting at Windmills on the field ... then Jabber would pull a literal OTK off just 2 followers for double Israfil to face.

Not super viable, to be sure. But hella fun.

Definitely would be awesome to see, but that setup isn't consistent enough. 

Jabber definite seems to really fit the Pull Storm Burst archetype, but only if you have enough board to make him effective. 

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Have you thought of using Goblin Leader? He seems like a good token generator for cheap pp.

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4 minutes ago, Unryuu said:

Have you thought of using Goblin Leader? He seems like a good token generator for cheap pp.

If I ever shift away from using Flute, Gerblin would definitely be a consideration. Might be a bit to squishy for use with Jabber because of how late he comes out.

Jabber is a whole lot of gacha, which is why I doubt he will ever see any tier decks. As it is now, he is mostly wiping Hellfires and Fortes off my board.

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4 minutes ago, Morrigan said:

If I ever shift away from using Flute, Gerblin would definitely be a consideration. Might be a bit to squishy for use with Jabber because of how late he comes out.

Jabber is a whole lot of gacha, which is why I doubt he will ever see any tier decks. As it is now, he is mostly wiping Hellfires and Fortes off my board.

You have to believe in gacha :D I did most of my ladder on Neph Shadow, doing the RNG pulls at the right place, every time. It's actually taken me absurd amounts of effort to make my Neph curve consistent and playable ... ish.

Edited by Unryuu

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24 minutes ago, Unryuu said:

You have to believe in gacha :D I did most of my ladder on Neph Shadow, doing the RNG pulls at the right place, every time. It's actually taken me absurd amounts of effort to make my Neph curve consistent and playable ... ish.

Gacha is life. I actually prefer playing decks with a gacha element to it because it is fun and interactive. 

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expansion made a lot of the useless dragon cards not as useless.

Edited by Zulen

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Hippogryph Rider feels very strong in this build.  Probably would run it over Ebon tbh.  the hellflame synergy even without Jabber would give you a heck of punch.

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Hm, was eye-opening to play against Jabberflute yesterday :D

I had a few thoughts after seeing it in play, although - as is known - I'm neither a main or a particularly experienced deckbuilder for DC. However, from the perspective of someone who runs up against Dragon on ladder a lot, for some reason, I'd like to ask if you agree with these observations I made:

(1) Jabberwock isn't a wincon play. The issue is that with a weak(er) early than most decks in this meta, your Jabber will frankly have to pull 20 in face to give the reach for a finish. But the 8pp drop requires a stocked field on 7pp to trigger for optimal value, which dedicated board-control decks like Haven, Sword and Shadow will never let you have. This is compounded by Ebon, which whilst being a good ward, doesn't generate value until the next turn, when your opponent will already have a load of answers like Themi/Khawy ready.

(2) Jabber doesn't synergize with DSFlute. DSFlute is only playable at Overflow, so if you want a max-speed Jabber drop, you'll only ever get to drop Flute + 2 x Hellflame on 7, which isn't a lot. Moreover the point of DS Flute is to make your otherwise useless 2- or 3- drops relevant in the late, which is redundant with the exact same purpose of Jabber. Flames are almost as easy as the 2- or 3- drops you replace to remove, with their 3-def statline, specially if you rushed them into something. You find yourself using evos to keep Flames alive, but that just means you put +2/+2 on a follower that gets destroyed next turn and hence gives limited value.

(3) Reactive board presence. Your early is low-threat, filled with stuff like Nest, Dragonnewt Fist and Blazing Breath. There's not much chance of you taking board to strike face, even with a slow control deck - which gives them a lot of room to set up. Your middle really rests on the DS Flute play, which drops Flames - good for catching up on board, but not really for generating a threat. They have rush 4/3 because they're meant to take down your opponents' board cheaply, not flood with high-durability material.

(4) Ramp? I wonder why ramp is strictly necessary in this deck. I know it pulls your Jabber out earlier, but I wonder if the tempo loss of Aiela, Oracle and whatever is worth the extra turn. Particularly because if your curve ends on 9pp, there's no necessity to access your 10pp bricks in a rush, really.

So I thought - why not remove DS Flute, Oracle, Emissary, Nest, Ebon, etc. entirely from this build (please don't kill me :D) and replace it with a Face Dragon core, built of powerful 2-line and 3-line followers, such as Mussushu or Trinity Dragon. Your opponent will struggle at least a little to find answers to them early (particularly with evos), and you can find quite a bit of chip opprtunity. Mid game is to use your tempo from early to go into Forte, and other tech for more face. Once your opponent seems to be stabilizing, drop Jabber for guaranteed Gen/Forte pulls into, hopefully, a lethal when added to your poke. You can also choose to include Ouro, because even though Jabber may proc it for no storm, your opponent still has to answer it the next turn to avoid 8 to face. So it's a quasi-ward at least as good as Ebon, and it puts Ouro in your otherwise empty hand that you emptied on 7pp as a powerful Plan B wincon. Good for reach.

Edited by Unryuu

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15 hours ago, Unryuu said:

Hm, was eye-opening to play against Jabberflute yesterday :D

I had a few thoughts after seeing it in play, although - as is known - I'm neither a main or a particularly experienced deckbuilder for DC. However, from the perspective of someone who runs up against Dragon on ladder a lot, for some reason, I'd like to ask if you agree with these observations I made:

(1) Jabberwock isn't a wincon play. The issue is that with a weak(er) early than most decks in this meta, your Jabber will frankly have to pull 20 in face to give the reach for a finish. But the 8pp drop requires a stocked field on 7pp to trigger for optimal value, which dedicated board-control decks like Haven, Sword and Shadow will never let you have. This is compounded by Ebon, which whilst being a good ward, doesn't generate value until the next turn, when your opponent will already have a load of answers like Themi/Khawy ready.

(2) Jabber doesn't synergize with DSFlute. DSFlute is only playable at Overflow, so if you want a max-speed Jabber drop, you'll only ever get to drop Flute + 2 x Hellflame on 7, which isn't a lot. Moreover the point of DS Flute is to make your otherwise useless 2- or 3- drops relevant in the late, which is redundant with the exact same purpose of Jabber. Flames are almost as easy as the 2- or 3- drops you replace to remove, with their 3-def statline, specially if you rushed them into something. You find yourself using evos to keep Flames alive, but that just means you put +2/+2 on a follower that gets destroyed next turn and hence gives limited value.

(3) Reactive board presence. Your early is low-threat, filled with stuff like Nest, Dragonnewt Fist and Blazing Breath. There's not much chance of you taking board to strike face, even with a slow control deck - which gives them a lot of room to set up. Your middle really rests on the DS Flute play, which drops Flames - good for catching up on board, but not really for generating a threat. They have rush 4/3 because they're meant to take down your opponents' board cheaply, not flood with high-durability material.

(4) Ramp? I wonder why ramp is strictly necessary in this deck. I know it pulls your Jabber out earlier, but I wonder if the tempo loss of Aiela, Oracle and whatever is worth the extra turn. Particularly because if your curve ends on 9pp, there's no necessity to access your 10pp bricks in a rush, really.

So I thought - why not remove DS Flute, Oracle, Emissary, Nest, Ebon, etc. entirely from this build (please don't kill me :D) and replace it with a Face Dragon core, built of powerful 2-line and 3-line followers, such as Mussushu or Trinity Dragon. Your opponent will struggle at least a little to find answers to them early (particularly with evos), and you can find quite a bit of chip opprtunity. Mid game is to use your tempo from early to go into Forte, and other tech for more face. Once your opponent seems to be stabilizing, drop Jabber for guaranteed Gen/Forte pulls into, hopefully, a lethal when added to your poke. You can also choose to include Ouro, because even though Jabber may proc it for no storm, your opponent still has to answer it the next turn to avoid 8 to face. So it's a quasi-ward at least as good as Ebon, and it puts Ouro in your otherwise empty hand that you emptied on 7pp as a powerful Plan B wincon. Good for reach.

Board presence is pretty much entire down to spells, hence the need for ramping, best thing to do for jabber is to get out followers asap, n then pop em all at once, since really in the jabber deck I'm working on (just a bit here n there) the curve stops at 5 for sibyls for the most part, then it's just jabber, genesis dragons and Forte xD obviously it's not the best since I only have one jabber but it's fun lol 

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16 hours ago, Unryuu said:

Hm, was eye-opening to play against Jabberflute yesterday :D

I had a few thoughts after seeing it in play, although - as is known - I'm neither a main or a particularly experienced deckbuilder for DC. However, from the perspective of someone who runs up against Dragon on ladder a lot, for some reason, I'd like to ask if you agree with these observations I made:

(1) Jabberwock isn't a wincon play. The issue is that with a weak(er) early than most decks in this meta, your Jabber will frankly have to pull 20 in face to give the reach for a finish. But the 8pp drop requires a stocked field on 7pp to trigger for optimal value, which dedicated board-control decks like Haven, Sword and Shadow will never let you have. This is compounded by Ebon, which whilst being a good ward, doesn't generate value until the next turn, when your opponent will already have a load of answers like Themi/Khawy ready.

(2) Jabber doesn't synergize with DSFlute. DSFlute is only playable at Overflow, so if you want a max-speed Jabber drop, you'll only ever get to drop Flute + 2 x Hellflame on 7, which isn't a lot. Moreover the point of DS Flute is to make your otherwise useless 2- or 3- drops relevant in the late, which is redundant with the exact same purpose of Jabber. Flames are almost as easy as the 2- or 3- drops you replace to remove, with their 3-def statline, specially if you rushed them into something. You find yourself using evos to keep Flames alive, but that just means you put +2/+2 on a follower that gets destroyed next turn and hence gives limited value.

(3) Reactive board presence. Your early is low-threat, filled with stuff like Nest, Dragonnewt Fist and Blazing Breath. There's not much chance of you taking board to strike face, even with a slow control deck - which gives them a lot of room to set up. Your middle really rests on the DS Flute play, which drops Flames - good for catching up on board, but not really for generating a threat. They have rush 4/3 because they're meant to take down your opponents' board cheaply, not flood with high-durability material.

(4) Ramp? I wonder why ramp is strictly necessary in this deck. I know it pulls your Jabber out earlier, but I wonder if the tempo loss of Aiela, Oracle and whatever is worth the extra turn. Particularly because if your curve ends on 9pp, there's no necessity to access your 10pp bricks in a rush, really.

So I thought - why not remove DS Flute, Oracle, Emissary, Nest, Ebon, etc. entirely from this build (please don't kill me :D) and replace it with a Face Dragon core, built of powerful 2-line and 3-line followers, such as Mussushu or Trinity Dragon. Your opponent will struggle at least a little to find answers to them early (particularly with evos), and you can find quite a bit of chip opprtunity. Mid game is to use your tempo from early to go into Forte, and other tech for more face. Once your opponent seems to be stabilizing, drop Jabber for guaranteed Gen/Forte pulls into, hopefully, a lethal when added to your poke. You can also choose to include Ouro, because even though Jabber may proc it for no storm, your opponent still has to answer it the next turn to avoid 8 to face. So it's a quasi-ward at least as good as Ebon, and it puts Ouro in your otherwise empty hand that you emptied on 7pp as a powerful Plan B wincon. Good for reach.

I already took Ebon out because he was brick and suboptimal is Jabber pulled him. You are fairly accurate that Jabber does have a fairly limited range with his cost, considering at best being able go drop two Flames down and Jabber in a turn (Giving that Emissary pulls Jabber). Flute package is a bit separate in the deck, and I added it for the Flames, recycling early game cards drawn later.

As far as ramping it does help with getting Fortes on the board quicker (Actually won a fair deal of matches holding Jabber in my hand) but there is room to cut back the ramp for more board. (Before WD, I ran Seig and Cav for the obvious Hellflame Rush on any big guys and free Hellflame)

Disclaimer:

Anytime I post a decklist, within ~4 hours it's probably changed:D

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On 06/07/2017 at 3:13 PM, Unryuu said:

@Morrigan so from what I've been seeing, a lot of Jabberwocky decks are restricted to only Storm followers in their high-cost slots for some utility out of the Fanfare. But I was thinking, would it be possible to use Jabber as a straight tutor? For example, since the TOTG nerfs we've been unable to play Saha-Zell-Baha ... but what if Jabber were controlled to always pull Zell + Bahamut for Turn 7 13 damage face OTKs again?

Or for example, if you only had 3 x Israfil on the end curve of your deck, and Jabberwocky, and Tilting at Windmills on the field ... then Jabber would pull a literal OTK off just 2 followers for double Israfil to face.

Not super viable, to be sure. But hella fun.

The tutor idea sounds sweet but Jabber has a major issue is that you can't control that much the drag. He might even drag himself if you got two of him, or drag 2 Zell, or 2 Bahamut. Having perfect drag accuracy would imply quite careful deck building and would be ruined by a wrong draw.

Instead, I believe one have better putting several storm (Forte x3, Genesis x2-3), and Ariett.

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