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Imperial Dane

The Good, the Bad and The Grimnir. Neutral Followers in Shadowverse

63 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, midgardsormr said:

Problem is, a 3pp 2/3 Ward is especially a problem for aggro decks, and no aggro deck I know wants to run a 3pp removal-only spell.

Since aggro is in a better spot than control (outside of dragon) this is a good reason for not nerfing Grimnir xD.

Nerfing should make the gap between aggro and control smaller and not bigger.

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1 minute ago, Kharaxx said:

Since aggro is in a better spot than control (outside of dragon) this is a good reason for not nerfing Grimnir xD.

Nerfing should make the gap between aggro and control smaller and not bigger.

While true, that is only taking into account the basic version of Grimnir. If he was just a 2/3 ward, the outcry wouldn't be as huge. But the fact that he becomes a board clear / reach at 10 PP makes the card so infuriating. By removing his damage to the enemy leader you would keep the cards viability for midrange / control, but at the same time make him less appealing to aggro type decks.

Or maybe have him only do damage to face if there are no followers, so it is still reach for decks that control the board, but SMOrc decks will not get to use that part of him.

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25 minutes ago, Kharaxx said:

Since aggro is in a better spot than control (outside of dragon) this is a good reason for not nerfing Grimnir xD.

Nerfing should make the gap between aggro and control smaller and not bigger.

Except when it just makes everything more uniform, especially between the major archetypes and largely forces aggro decks to run grimnir otherwise they won't stand a chance vs decks that do have it. That's another problem. Grimnir just becomes too ubiquitous 

 

Plus he might just lead to more of these followers. IE good when played normally, like really good. And then even better when enhanced. Even without the enhance Grimnir is nuts, with the enhance he just becomes disgusting.

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8 minutes ago, Imperial Dane said:

Except when it just makes everything more uniform, especially between the major archetypes and largely forces aggro decks to run grimnir otherwise they won't stand a chance vs decks that do have it. That's another problem. Grimnir just becomes too ubiquitous 

 

Plus he might just lead to more of these followers. IE good when played normally, like really good. And then even better when enhanced. Even without the enhance Grimnir is nuts, with the enhance he just becomes disgusting.

I prefer playing control with Grimnir in every of my control Decks instead of to quote a few people: "Control is dead"

The best solution would be to print class cards to replace Grimnir.

Unfortunately those cards don't exist and those who exist are not good enough.

It's like choosing between something bad and something worse.

I choose the bad option, call control viable and use Grimnir in all of them.

But if you prefer calling control dead..nothing to say against this.

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Honestly i don't particularly care about control, it is a playstyle that to me is personally not very interesting nor fun. So for me, if control was to go away i'd hardly be weeping. But i have nothing against it as such as long as there is some counterplay to it.

 

And in this case Control is not being outdone by Aggro, but by Ramp dragon and variations on it and Midrange shadowcraft. Which don't particularly *care* about Grimnir, but every other deck tends to run into problems and Grimnir is just a really bad and lazy card which i on instinct dislike. So if control dies in the process, i won't really care because in the longer run, grimnir will be worse for the game. He has to be stamped out preferably as soon as possible. Because again. It is not just control running him, it is aggro, midrange and combo. If it was only control, i wouldn't give a damn.

 

But it isn't now is it ? And thusly there is the problem. So you can keep talking about control, but every bastard is running him and that has to stop and if that means control has to look to something else. Fine by me.

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13 minutes ago, Kharaxx said:

I prefer playing control with Grimnir in every of my control Decks instead of to quote a few people: "Control is dead"

The best solution would be to print class cards to replace Grimnir.

Unfortunately those cards don't exist and those who exist are not good enough.

It's like choosing between something bad and something worse.

I choose the bad option, call control viable and use Grimnir in all of them.

But if you prefer calling control dead..nothing to say against this.

K what control deck do you play?

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@zzMedVeDzz

Slower decks is probably more fitting: Aegis Haven, Nephtys, Control Sword, Control Blood and Ramp Dragon.

Most of the time I am talking about control sword, it is so important for the deck to have cards which can:

Compete in the early game against shadow

Clear Eachtar/Deaths breath in the lategame

Can punish Ramp Dragon for playing Aiela.

Deals facedmg against Ramp Dragon and Aegis in the lategame.

If I use a different 3 drop, I can clear the second Eachtar, so I have to use Baha against Eachtar. By doing this I can't go aggressive against Dragon or to compete the earlygame of shadow.

2 hours ago, Imperial Dane said:

Honestly i don't particularly care about control, it is a playstyle that to me is personally not very interesting nor fun. So for me, if control was to go away i'd hardly be weeping.

And that's the reason why I can't agree.

I play control, I care if they are viable or not.

2 hours ago, Imperial Dane said:

that means control has to look to something else. Fine by me.

I would like running more different 3drops in my Decks, but I can't put in weak cards or cards which don't exist.

I think it's a very very bad balance philosophie to make decks YOU don't play no longer viable and killing the decks I like.

Wouldn't it be better to keep as many decks as possible viable so I can play the Decks I like and you can play the Decks you like?

What do you prefer:

Control sword is the only viable sword?

Or Aggro sword midrange sword and control sword are viable?

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, Kharaxx said:

Since aggro is in a better spot than control (outside of dragon) this is a good reason for not nerfing Grimnir xD.

Nerfing should make the gap between aggro and control smaller and not bigger.

Make Grimnir enhance a 5 cost deal 1 damage to enemy field and you will be surprised how this "Nerf" to dragon ends up buffing the card for everyone to be able to answer current aggro-swarm situation, especially with the whole Prince and Co.

Edited by Ellezard

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I think Grimnir needs to be a 2/2 with the same effect without ward, or a 2/3 keeping his stats, but dealing his damage to all enemy followers or followers because he's overbudgeted as a 3 cost minion/follower. 2/3 stats are OP for a 3 drop and he's a conflagration with a 3 mana 2/3 body attached.

Also, Zell should be a 3/3 when evolved or have his effect changed to: If Overflow is active for you, give a friendly Dragoncraft Follower Storm.

This also means no more 13 damage bursts, it's literally not fair for the entire game. The closet thing is Genesis Dragon or Forte+ Urd and that's not even comparable to that.

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5 hours ago, Volcanon said:

This also means no more 13 damage bursts, it's literally not fair for the entire game. The closet thing is Genesis Dragon or Forte+ Urd and that's not even comparable to that.

Yes it is? Forte+Urd is a 2 card combo for 10 play points which deals 12 damage with evo and leaves behind a 3/3 and a 7/3 untouchable.

Sahaquiel+Zell+Bahamut is a 3 card combo for 9 play points which deals 13 damage with an evo and leaves behind two 4/4's and gives your opponent knowledge about your hand.

 

Even if we were to follow through with your nerf, Zell+Ouroboros is a 2 card combo for 10 play points which deals 11 damage with an evo and leaves behind a 4/4 and an Ouroboros.

What changed?

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47 minutes ago, Chinadude101 said:

Yes it is? Forte+Urd is a 2 card combo for 10 play points which deals 12 damage with evo and leaves behind a 3/3 and a 7/3 untouchable.

Sahaquiel+Zell+Bahamut is a 3 card combo for 9 play points which deals 13 damage with an evo and leaves behind two 4/4's and gives your opponent knowledge about your hand.

 

Even if we were to follow through with your nerf, Zell+Ouroboros is a 2 card combo for 10 play points which deals 11 damage with an evo and leaves behind a 4/4 and an Ouroboros.

What changed?

the only time it matters is 9pp flying baha to face--> something like genesis for gg (exact 20) + the fact 10pp play x 2 is obviously slower than 9pp --> 10 pp --> gg

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59 minutes ago, Chinadude101 said:

Yes it is? Forte+Urd is a 2 card combo for 10 play points which deals 12 damage with evo and leaves behind a 3/3 and a 7/3 untouchable.

Sahaquiel+Zell+Bahamut is a 3 card combo for 9 play points which deals 13 damage with an evo and leaves behind two 4/4's and gives your opponent knowledge about your hand.

 

Even if we were to follow through with your nerf, Zell+Ouroboros is a 2 card combo for 10 play points which deals 11 damage with an evo and leaves behind a 4/4 and an Ouroboros.

What changed?

Forte and Urd are both pretty awkward in terms of board control.

On the other hand, Zell has a 2/2 body which is as good as you're gonna get for 2PP. The tempo swings that Sahaquiel and Bahamut can get you are also ridiculous.

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Posted (edited)

Storm shouldn't be so easy to gain access to to begin with. If some cards ever grant storm, it should be annoying and hard to use like Castle in the sky.

Zell evo should just be changed to something like "4/4 gives everything on your side Rush if Overflow is active."

Actually, No storm card should even be created anymore without putting actual heavy restriction like Overload where you can storm this turn but on the next turn, you lose half of your PP. Rush exists for a reason, start making that a thing instead of stormstormstorm like a tool.

Edited by Ellezard

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