Sign in to follow this  
MoltenSilver

Hitting a wall at A0, help breaking through?

21 posts in this topic

I've been playing Shadowverse for coming up on two months now, and about a week ago I managed to reach A0 tier. But now that I'm in it i find I'm just getting destroyed repeatedly after getting through B pretty easily.

I got through B by using a control blood deck teched to counter Daria that also did really well against the sword and blood aggro decks. That deck pretty much went on a loss streak as soon as I stopped running into Daria and aggro. The other decks I've tried so far are Sun Haven and Nephthys Shadowcraft (Ironically despite being gimmicky and inconsistent Nep is responsible for most of my few A0 wins).

Part of the problem is I don't even know what I'm fighting; one day the ladder is nothing but D-shift, the next day I run into 4 Nephthys in a row, last week I fought a bunch of Path to Purgatory ER and this week I haven't seen it at all, and so on. Today it was a lot of discard-combo Dragoncrafts I've never seen before mixed with some midrange sword, aggro blood, and Nephthys. While it's good and enjoyable for not every game to be Daria it is certainly making figuring out what I should play harder.

So, to get to the more direct questions:
1. Are there any tools that can help me predict what people will be playing? I've tried looking at meta snapshots but all those seem far enoguh out of date they might as well be ancient history. Is there a streamer or site a huge portion of people netdeck from? Or meta-snapshots more up-to-date?
2. What decks do you find have a high win-rate in ladder games? What's a good deck when you're not sure what environment you're going in to? Any tips for reading the meta better day to day and how to adapt?
3. Has anyone else hit 'walls' at certain ranks? What did you do to get over them?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

Edited by MoltenSilver
Rephrased one of my questions to be clearer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MoltenSilver said:

I've been playing Shadowverse for coming up on two months now, and about a week ago I managed to reach A0 tier. But now that I'm in it i find I'm just getting destroyed repeatedly after getting through B pretty easily.

I got through B by using a control blood deck teched to counter Daria that also did really well against the sword and blood aggro decks. That deck pretty much went on a loss streak as soon as I stopped running into Daria and aggro. The other decks I've tried so far are Sun Haven and Nephthys Shadowcraft (Ironically despite being gimmicky and inconsistent Nep is responsible for most of my few A0 wins).

Part of the problem is I don't even know what I'm fighting; one day the ladder is nothing but D-shift, the next day I run into 4 Nephthys in a row, last week I fought a bunch of Path to Purgatory ER and this week I haven't seen it at all, and so on. Today it was a lot of discard-combo Dragoncrafts I've never seen before mixed with some midrange sword, aggro blood, and Nephthys. While it's good and enjoyable for not every game to be Daria it is certainly making figuring out what I should play harder.

So, to get to the more direct questions:
1. Are there any tools that can help me predict what people will be playing? I've tried looking at meta snapshots but all those seem far enoguh out of date they might as well be ancient history. Is there a streamer or site a huge portion of people netdeck from? Or meta-snapshots more up-to-date?
2. What decks do you use for ladder climbing? What's a good deck when you're not sure what environment you're going in to? Any tips for reading the meta better day to day and how to adapt?
3. Has anyone else hit 'walls' at certain ranks? What did you do to get over them?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

1 . No we are clueless , but usually people seeing tierlists at game-ai for netdeck preferences , you may check youtube channel aporo g, game with,  koroneko, ignideus or kou rgj for streamers , rank A is  unpredictable cause you still seeing mix deck so just hoping your deck can best them 

2. I hate bout this answer but if you want to rank faster , just use daria or aggro sword 

   ( though at this rate i just rank up slowly with my control blood , control shadow , or ramp dragon  but those option is nit to grinding just for fun )

3. Yes i do but just play slowly , you will rank up if you good enuff if you win against player that have higher rank than you , you will get between 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Void said:

2. I hate bout this answer but if you want to rank faster , just use daria or aggro sword 

   ( though at this rate i just rank up slowly with my control blood , control shadow , or ramp dragon  but those option is nit to grinding just for fun )

Thanks for the help.

I probably worded this wrong in my initial post, I more meant what decks do people find a decent win-rate with. I don't really care about grinding up super fast (I actually like slow the decks the best), I just want to stop losing as much lol.

Out of curiosity (if you're willing to share) what type of control blood deck do you use? Because mine couldn't seem to win a single game recently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MoltenSilver said:

Thanks for the help.

I probably worded this wrong in my initial post, I more meant what decks do people find a decent win-rate with. I don't really care about grinding up super fast (I actually like slow the decks the best), I just want to stop losing as much lol.

Out of curiosity (if you're willing to share) what type of control blood deck do you use? Because mine couldn't seem to win a single game recently.

https://shadowverse-portal.com/deckbuilder/create/6?hash=1.6.65BUS.65BUS.65BUS.67WPs.67WPs.67SGY.67SGY.67SGY.6BIrA.6BIrA.61KvW.61KvW.6BI6S.6BI6S.6BI6S.63ilo.63ilo.63ilo.5_rhS.5_rhS.63iH0.63iH0.63iGs.67Yro.67Yro.63i_Q.63i_Q.63i_Q.63kio.6BKYi.61SDy.65GMy.65GMy.63i_a.63i_a.65GMo.63iHA.61SE6.694Vo.694Vo this is my c-blood i use from rank A0 till master , i also considering to using sadistic night  ( i dont have blood matria4ch and only have 1 queen vampire )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But if you met dshift , its game over so just use aggro deck to grind if you see dshift more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hitting a wall around A0 is normal because the lack of winstreak, it makes it look like you're doing worse than you actually are if you're used to those extra points. But to answer your question Aggro Sword, Bolt Forest, Storm Dragon, Midrange Shadow, Daria Rune, Aggro Blood and Seraph Haven all have good or decent winrates.

And there's a site where you can see the playrates of each class but you have to translate it: http://shadowlog.com/trend/2017/10/0/51

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Void said:

Since I do have those cards, hypothetically what would you swap out for Queen Vampire(s) and Matriarch(s)?

Was also thinking adding Razory Claw somewhere, might be good for emergency removal and helps close game with Mary synergy.

In my own collection I'm missing Lucifer from this list, do you find him really vital to it or is he 'just nice to have'?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, MoltenSilver said:

Since I do have those cards, hypothetically what would you swap out for Queen Vampire(s) and Matriarch(s)?

Was also thinking adding Razory Claw somewhere, might be good for emergency removal and helps close game with Mary synergy.

In my own collection I'm missing Lucifer from this list, do you find him really vital to it or is he 'just nice to have'?

Oh you already had queen vamp and matriarch , okay  thats gonna smoothen your way then , try this deck build  

 it is a mid range blood with decent win against aggro or daria 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel your A rank pain, I just recently got to A1 after being stuck at A0 for about 3 days. I was using a variety of so-so decks nep, aggro blood and a few others it was midrange sword that got me through the slump though. 

However recently I have hit another wall because of all the anti sword cards being used right now and I'm going to try out ramp dragon bahamut a bit, seems decent and has a good win rate something like 55 percent I think. So IMO sword or dragon ramp our the way to go, if you do pick sword keep in mind the anti sword tech is likely to just get worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is rather annoying. I walked the same path as you using control blood for the majority of the time, then switching to Guardian Haven and now Control Sword. 

There was a moment where I collected a good amount of points because I adjusted my heavy control deck to a more mid-range control deck with more small utility tools. This caused the matchup with the heavily popular swordcraft decks to be quite a walk in the park, but so far I have had multiple days where I don't encounter sword at all and tons of ramp (discard) dragon, d-shift and daria are present. Additionally, I stumble upon tons of super heavy decks that will in normal situations never be able to win anything, except against control. We are talking about stuff like 3 bahamut, 2 odin, 1 olivia, paired with the big control cards of the running class. 

I this meta, I find that establishing board with a few small wards is key to winning. Since my swap to Control Sword (no albert), I have been winning unfavourable matchups because you still are able to keep board presence. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Jeffaffah said:

I this meta, I find that establishing board with a few small wards is key to winning. Since my swap to Control Sword (no albert), I have been winning unfavourable matchups because you still are able to keep board presence. 

I think c-sword wins b/c even when you play control you stil going fave with 8 mana dude xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a rock/paper/scissors situation. Accept wins when you face the right deck and your losses when you face the wrong ones. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Void said:

Oh you already had queen vamp and matriarch , okay  thats gonna smoothen your way then , try this deck build  

 it is a mid range blood with decent win against aggro or daria 

Tried this deck for a few hours (not the greatest sample size, but enough to formulate an early opinion I think), did not see much success with it; it's too heavy to consistently draw a good opening but also doesn't seem to do well recovering from behind (or rather, by the time you do have things to recover like matriarch or cheap revelation you're usually dead from hand, and lack the healing to buy time as your only healing comes turn 9 from Temptress or Mary+Dire). It's also not great as a midrange deck because its minions just aren't good at fighting for the early board, leaving you playing catch-up in the midgame instead of pressing the damage Yurius and Ambling Wraith give. Generally it just seemed to do worse than my control blood deck vs aggro, while also not improving my matchups vs things like Dragon or Haven. It seems very much like a feast or famine deck; you do well if you do get that magic curve and Mary ending, but that didn't happen very often for me and you also have a lot of potential to wind up with Bahamut, temptress, and matriarch in hand.

The real nail in the coffin though is that its just boring to play, in my personal opinion. it seems to very much be 'follow the curve' for most of the game.

Don't have more time to play atm, contemplating what to play tomorrow given today I still saw a weirdly high amount of Altered Fate Dragon and Haven instead over sword and daria.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MoltenSilver said:

Tried this deck for a few hours (not the greatest sample size, but enough to formulate an early opinion I think), did not see much success with it; it's too heavy to consistently draw a good opening but also doesn't seem to do well recovering from behind (or rather, by the time you do have things to recover like matriarch or cheap revelation you're usually dead from hand, and lack the healing to buy time as your only healing comes turn 9 from Temptress or Mary+Dire). It's also not great as a midrange deck because its minions just aren't good at fighting for the early board, leaving you playing catch-up in the midgame instead of pressing the damage Yurius and Ambling Wraith give. Generally it just seemed to do worse than my control blood deck vs aggro, while also not improving my matchups vs things like Dragon or Haven. It seems very much like a feast or famine deck; you do well if you do get that magic curve and Mary ending, but that didn't happen very often for me and you also have a lot of potential to wind up with Bahamut, temptress, and matriarch in hand.

The real nail in the coffin though is that its just boring to play, in my personal opinion. it seems to very much be 'follow the curve' for most of the game.

Don't have more time to play atm, contemplating what to play tomorrow given today I still saw a weirdly high amount of Altered Fate Dragon and Haven instead over sword and daria.

Oh too bad for you  , kay gl with other deck then if this lists didnt help you at all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Jeffaffah said:

It is rather annoying. I walked the same path as you using control blood for the majority of the time, then switching to Guardian Haven and now Control Sword. 

There was a moment where I collected a good amount of points because I adjusted my heavy control deck to a more mid-range control deck with more small utility tools. This caused the matchup with the heavily popular swordcraft decks to be quite a walk in the park, but so far I have had multiple days where I don't encounter sword at all and tons of ramp (discard) dragon, d-shift and daria are present. Additionally, I stumble upon tons of super heavy decks that will in normal situations never be able to win anything, except against control. We are talking about stuff like 3 bahamut, 2 odin, 1 olivia, paired with the big control cards of the running class. 

I this meta, I find that establishing board with a few small wards is key to winning. Since my swap to Control Sword (no albert), I have been winning unfavourable matchups because you still are able to keep board presence. 

Do you not have abe or what was the reason for not including it, also have you had any issues with mass clears against your small wards? I ask because I've had a fair amount of games against c blood and haven some dragon too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Robo said:

Do you not have abe or what was the reason for not including it, also have you had any issues with mass clears against your small wards? I ask because I've had a fair amount of games against c blood and haven some dragon too.

If I want to play Albert, then I might as well play mid-range Sword instead. I don't think Control Swordcraft needs Albert either. 

I don't encounter too many Control Blood, so I can't tell. What I do know is that any control matchup will depend on "How greedy" your deck is. If you run a ton of heavy followers, you will win the matchup. If you do, however, your overall laddering experience will be awful as quicker decks will simply slaughter you. As a result, I personally run less greedy decks and heavily depend on either Bahamut or Prince of Darkness to win the control matchup. But against Ramp Dragon... Your odds are lower regardless, so I wouldn't attempt to make your deck resistant to Ramp Dragon. It is as mentioned by @Yxanthymir2, sometimes you encounter a natural losing matchup. The only thing you can try is to play out your odds and hope that your opponent bricks or doesn't have any answers available. 

It is as if you would put Odin in your Control Decks because you want to have counter plays to Neph and Seraph, but you will not encounter those decks THAT frequently to warrant Odin being an auto include in your deck. Most of the time it will sit in your hand doing nothing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Jeffaffah said:

If I want to play Albert, then I might as well play mid-range Sword instead. I don't think Control Swordcraft needs Albert either. 

I don't encounter too many Control Blood, so I can't tell. What I do know is that any control matchup will depend on "How greedy" your deck is. If you run a ton of heavy followers, you will win the matchup. If you do, however, your overall laddering experience will be awful as quicker decks will simply slaughter you. As a result, I personally run less greedy decks and heavily depend on either Bahamut or Prince of Darkness to win the control matchup. But against Ramp Dragon... Your odds are lower regardless, so I wouldn't attempt to make your deck resistant to Ramp Dragon. It is as mentioned by @Yxanthymir2, sometimes you encounter a natural losing matchup. The only thing you can try is to play out your odds and hope that your opponent bricks or doesn't have any answers available. 

It is as if you would put Odin in your Control Decks because you want to have counter plays to Neph and Seraph, but you will not encounter those decks THAT frequently to warrant Odin being an auto include in your deck. Most of the time it will sit in your hand doing nothing. 

Yeah that's sort of the realization I've been coming to; I ran Odin in my CBlood deck all the way through B but looking back on it I think I can count on 1 hand the number of times it actually hit Seraph or Mordecai; I've taken them out now, figuring that if I'm running into Seraph or Shadow enough to justify Odin, I'd probably just be better off playing a different deck in that environment.

On a semi-tangent note, I still keep seeing a bunch of Dragoncraft and was wondering what are some good decks for countering it? I've had some wins against it as Neph (which as an aside actually did very well for me today), but that's not really enough matches to intuit on my own who the matchup favours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, MoltenSilver said:

Yeah that's sort of the realization I've been coming to; I ran Odin in my CBlood deck all the way through B but looking back on it I think I can count on 1 hand the number of times it actually hit Seraph or Mordecai; I've taken them out now, figuring that if I'm running into Seraph or Shadow enough to justify Odin, I'd probably just be better off playing a different deck in that environment.

On a semi-tangent note, I still keep seeing a bunch of Dragoncraft and was wondering what are some good decks for countering it? I've had some wins against it as Neph (which as an aside actually did very well for me today), but that's not really enough matches to intuit on my own who the matchup favours.

Based on my experience so far shadow is usually favored over dragon because of all the board removal. Dragon is typicaly dependent on gaining board control I'd assume storm dragon less so however. 

So really any deck that can clear the board fairly easily should do fine also aggro that can swing in before ramp matters. It could depend on what type of dragon you have been up against though, OTK discard might be trickier aggro should still do good though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I finally managed to slam my face through the brick wall and made it to A1 (yay). I mostly got there off of a heavily anti-aggro blood list (with Satan and Bahamut splashed in to have a chance vs midrange/control), and having eerily good luck on sunday in running into a bunch of people playing tier 3 or even worse decks, and then today some more wins vs aggro and getting absurdly lucky against a few Sun Havens.

Welp, time to see how badly A1 kicks my backside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have the cards for it, play mid range sword.  Regardless of what you run into you are going to be at worst even, and often you will have the advantage.  There really is no other logical choice, if your sole purpose is to climb ranked ladder.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this