Volcanon

Discuss Hearthstone here

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Since you guys (Huck, Imperial, Jack and Chinaman) have experience in Hearthstone i decided to open this thread.

Anybody else is welcomed.

Well? Let's get to it!

I'll get started:

Muster for Pirates, turn 1.

Hearthstone Screenshot 02-23-17 17.06.22.png

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When that thing gets nerfed to one health Maelstrom Portal is going to become a real hero (more than it currently is).

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that's an even bigger satisfaction than getting rich on turn 6, coz money isn't everything!

Trump would be proud I think :P

Hearthstone Screenshot 01-16-17 14.36.19.png

Hearthstone Screenshot 01-11-17 12.03.05.png

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I still maintain my previous point. The game is fun and enjoyable, but has so much needless rng that it simply isn't competitive. 

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8 minutes ago, Chinadude101 said:

I still maintain my previous point. The game is fun and enjoyable, but has so much needless rng that it simply isn't competitive. 

yup I agree completely, Blizz seems to encourage rng -> casual players -> more profits

The kind of rng I've seen in Sv is the one that u can totally play around with game tactic, other than being quite a rare feature.

In hs in most rng cards u can't do nearly nothing at all to play around, casino mage has been a sad example for that. Plus I admit i rofl'd quite hard reading your answer "Yogg" on the other thread "why is sv better than hs", so darn true xDxD

 

off topic, how do i quote a post from a different thread, plz?

 

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9 minutes ago, _planetwalk3r_ said:

yup I agree completely, Blizz seems to encourage rng -> casual players -> more profits

The kind of rng I've seen in Sv is the one that u can totally play around with game tactic, other than being quite a rare feature.

In hs in most rng cards u can't do nearly nothing at all to play around, casino mage has been a sad example for that. Plus I admit i rofl'd quite hard reading your answer "Yogg" on the other thread "why is sv better than hs", so darn true xDxD

 

off topic, how do i quote a post from a different thread, plz?

 

Go to original thread, quote there. Now you have the quite in your replying area. Grab the entire thing and cut it, then go to your new thread and paste it in the reply area there...

I think...

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19 minutes ago, Chinadude101 said:

Go to original thread, quote there. Now you have the quite in your replying area. Grab the entire thing and cut it, then go to your new thread and paste it in the reply area there...

I think...

dumb me, it was quite easy indeed..:$

thanks!

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Looking back at HS now, the meta isn't that bad after all. Patches the Pirate was cancerous, but so was the classic face hunter, and noneofyourbusiness paladin. It seems to me that the meta now is the comparatively best since the Naxxramas. Not saying the luck dependence now is not an issue, but At least, decisions are important now in decks other than pirate warrior. 

Still, I hold a grudge with HS primarily because how they nerf stuff, and how lazy they are. Buzzard and Warsong nerf definitely could have been done better - downright nerfing them to death is simply lazy and unthoughtful. I don't buy their "freeing up design spaces" thingy either - especially when they keep watering the new expansions with **** tons of filler cards. 

This is , as Dane says, 'cognitive dissonance' of team5. On one hand they want the game to be "fun and interactive", so they nerf the **** out of charge combos like Patron Frothling and FoN + Savage Roar(the FoN nerf was reasonable), but then they create stuff like Patches and turn 1 Muster For Battle. They are literally contradicting themselves. 

Maybe im just a nostalgic butt hurt ex-Hearthstone player who runs to another CCG forum primarily to **** on my ex. Maybe I just miss the old midrange hunter days(don't hate me, that is not a braindead deck), Patron Warrior and old Handlock. 

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Just got something cool on my Asia account.

Too bad it wasn't on my Americas Account, i'm missing her to the crew.

 

Hearthstone Screenshot 02-24-17 14.38.03.png

Hearthstone Screenshot 02-24-17 14.38.10.png

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Seems like lifecoach has jumped ship from hearthstone to Gwent. And overall noticing more and more criticism of blizzard and their approach to the game.

 

Looks like there is increasingly more and more riding on their next expansion. Either they get it right, or they might not get another chance

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I have a lot on my chest regarding HS. HS's balancing in particular, bugs me to no end: OP card in the game? Ether nerf it to obscurity (Keeper of the grove was a particularly annoying nerf: they could totally have put it back to a 2/3 to test the waters or just replace the silence with something else like a buff to a follower. Nerfing it to a 2/2? Are you kidding me?), dump it in standard or outright remove it from play in the case of some Arena cards.

The abundance of power creep is also scary balance wise, but what's also an issue and not brought up as much is the amount of weak cards in the game. From the old cards like Bog Creeper and Magma Rager, to new ones like Blowgil Sniper and that 3/2 Ward that nobody cares about, they're the CCG Big Mac: empty calories that fill design space but are completely outclassed, thus they bring nothing to the table. What's worse is that this applies for some of the class cards as well. 

I also loathe the design of 1 drops in proportion to class hero powers: typical 1 drops are 2/1 or 1/2 in stats, or 1/1 if they have a strong effect. The problem is that 3 out of 9 of the classes have hero powers that instantly kill these 1/1's and 2/1's. So to make your 1 drops not cannon fodder against them, your 1 drop has to ether not die to a 1 damage ping (Argent Squire, Zombie Chow) or get it's value from it's effect (Abusive Sergeant), and the issue becomes prominent when Druid, Mage or Rogue is in the meta, or you play other online CCG's that balance they're hero powers accordingly (Duelyst) or have no hero powers at all. Life Tap is also very broken (basically a free Blood pact every turn), resulting in Blizzard making Warlock cards weak compared to the rest of the classes. 

And lastly, Blizzard has fiddled with the classes identities multiple times, introducing cards like Burgle and Unstable Portal when they don't make sense given what cards are already in the class pool, and Druid, Paladin, Shaman, Warrior, and Warlock are the classes unaffected by these cards, since they have well established mechanics, thus, good identities, but in the case of Hunter, Mage, Rogue, and Priest, they will suffer since they have a new root of cards growing alongside a tree of already established cards and mechanics, so ether continue up the bigger tree, leaving the root to wither, let the root grow more and more, neglecting the tree and doing a 180 on said class identity, or do a 50/50 split, still leaving a muddled class identity.

On the plus side of things, HS does have a couple stand out mechanics (Choose one, Discover) and with the recent patch, have improved a lot including the removal of future adventures (One of the reasons I left), but I'm still glad I found I'm playing this game instead of the RNG clown fiesta I left behind

4 hours ago, Imperial Dane said:

Seems like lifecoach has jumped ship from hearthstone to Gwent. And overall noticing more and more criticism of blizzard and their approach to the game.

 

Looks like there is increasingly more and more riding on their next expansion. Either they get it right, or they might not get another chance

Wow, competitive and well know HS streamer jumping ship is a big deal, and the fact that they're more skeptical of Blizzards decisions is a good thing in my book: hopefully they get it right.

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Yup. He has been playing nothing but gwent these last many streams and is more intent on just ranking up there. Made me give gwent another try, i still prefer shadowverse more. But i am starting to see the charms of gwent. It's a good lesson on how to use synergies effectively, but it does have it's own notable problems i think.

 

But yeah. the role of 1 drops in hearthstone. I think the 1 drops are actually a bit symptomatic of the overall issues in hearthstone. As you mention, a lot get knocked out by hero powers, one hero power essentially generates them. And also has nothing that synergizes with them. But more importantly. You only want to draw them right off the bat because, nothing works with them after that point. Like after a certain moment, they are effectively useless. Unless they are busted, which some just are, further negating the utility of most other 1 drops.

 

Compare with Shadowverse where numerous 1 drops posses some sort of synergy that allows them to later in a game gain more power and thus have more utility because they aren't rendered obsolete quickly. But when you start seeing shadowverse 2 drops as hearthstone 1 drops : http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Alleycat you kinda know something is off in the power creep department.

 

And the power creep is a big problem, in part because it tends to render any average cards bad as well. So not only do they purposefully design bad cards, they render even more cards utterly useless. Because they can't compete with the extreme power level of a few cards. And this i think largely boils down to the fact that they just don't get synergies. Synergies is essentially allow you to build decks with actual plans rather than just playing stuff on curve. Funnily enough the reason Shaman in part is so good is because it is one of the few classes that has a few synergies it can run consistently. Tunnel Trogg synergizes with overload, thing from below synergizes with totems, same with thunderbluff valiant. Throw in some other overall good stuff and you begin to see the problems when no other class gets nothing like that, the other one that is close is warrior with some of the pirate/weapon synergies. But it can't really compete with the shaman ones.

 

So unless they display with the next expansion that they have realized the importance of synergies, i don't think it's going to be a fun story until it gets shut down or someone clears out the top of the design team.

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5 hours ago, Imperial Dane said:

Seems like lifecoach has jumped ship from hearthstone to Gwent. And overall noticing more and more criticism of blizzard and their approach to the game.

 

Looks like there is increasingly more and more riding on their next expansion. Either they get it right, or they might not get another chance

I didn't expect Lifecoach could keep being loyal to Hearthstone for so long. Like, his best decks - Patron warrior and Handlock - are nerfed so hard, and skill is devalued so much in HS now because of the excessive RNG.

I got the beta key for GWENT not long ago, and it's amazing. Now I can have a reliable streamer to learn from.

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Hearthstone is better than shadowverse. In this game if your opponent draws thier legendary they pretty much win on the spot because late game legendaries are so overpowered. Wheather they darw the card or not is totally RNG so this game gets won by RNG even more than hearthstone. I get beaten by top decks in this game far more often than hearthstone because the cards themselves are so insanely impactful.

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2 hours ago, Huck Fearthstone said:

I didn't expect Lifecoach could keep being loyal to Hearthstone for so long. Like, his best decks - Patron warrior and Handlock - are nerfed so hard, and skill is devalued so much in HS now because of the excessive RNG.

I got the beta key for GWENT not long ago, and it's amazing. Now I can have a reliable streamer to learn from.

Here is the video discussing it actually : 

 

 

@arc Then play hearthstone. You're not impressing anyone at this point

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Originally Hearthstone had a balance policy that odd drops were worse than even drops, so that you would have power cards every other turn and player 2 didn't fall behind by that much.  Turns 1, 3, and 5 were specifically weak on purpose; meaning that any cards like Druid of the Claw or Azure Drake saw massive play.  This...... actually worked really well if you want the kind of midrange-ish game they seem to be going for.

This policy basically ended almost immediately in Naxx, where they decided Priest was having trouble and blatantly printed the first really good 3 drop to try and help it.

Edited by Jack42

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3 hours ago, Imperial Dane said:

Here is the video discussing it actually : 

 

 

@arc Then play hearthstone. You're not impressing anyone at this point

5:15 "(Hearthstone) It's like confliping with a little bit of stratregy. So maybe how you rotate the coin so that it flies thru the air at a specific angle so you have a 10% chance of having the head outcome."

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Something yall are going to have to realize at one point or another is that if you want to have a good conversation about Hearthstone, rather than just a circlejerk, you can't really just **** on it all the time or you are going to A) not have anyone interesting to talk to or B) only have people to talk to who think Shadowverse is worse.

At this point in time there's not much point to posting in any of these topics because it's basically one big anti-Hearthstone thread.  Which since I KNOW for a fact that I'm not going to convince anyone it's not awful, I don't see the point in trying to keep er going.

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27 minutes ago, Jack42 said:

Something yall are going to have to realize at one point or another is that if you want to have a good conversation about Hearthstone, rather than just a circlejerk, you can't really just **** on it all the time or you are going to A) not have anyone interesting to talk to or B) only have people to talk to who think Shadowverse is worse.

At this point in time there's not much point to posting in any of these topics because it's basically one big anti-Hearthstone thread.  Which since I KNOW for a fact that I'm not going to convince anyone it's not awful, I don't see the point in trying to keep er going.

I've yet to see an objective argument past the UI and artwork of how Hearthstone is in anyway superior to Shadowverse, in both the game and it's developers.

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1 minute ago, Chinadude101 said:

I've yet to see an objective argument past the UI and artwork of how Hearthstone is in anyway superior to Shadowverse, in both the game and it's developers.

What do you want an objective argument on?

Edit: Doe.  Um...... give me a moment.

Edited by Jack42

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4 minutes ago, Jack42 said:

What do you want an objective argument on?

*shrugs*

Overall game design, design philosophies, implementation of said philosophies. Anything, really.

 

EDIT: See my other post about Hearthstone being needlessly based on RNG.

Edited by Chinadude101

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28 minutes ago, Jack42 said:

Something yall are going to have to realize at one point or another is that if you want to have a good conversation about Hearthstone, rather than just a circlejerk, you can't really just **** on it all the time or you are going to A) not have anyone interesting to talk to or B) only have people to talk to who think Shadowverse is worse.

At this point in time there's not much point to posting in any of these topics because it's basically one big anti-Hearthstone thread.  Which since I KNOW for a fact that I'm not going to convince anyone it's not awful, I don't see the point in trying to keep er going.

When we talk about Hearthstone, it's hard not to mention problems about it, as there are so many.

Also, there really isn't much to talk about Hearthstone. It's either 1. their problems; 2. deck strategies - which aren't many, cuz the entire ladder is dominated by Pirate Warrior/Shaman/Reno Mage+Warlock/maybe Miracle Rogue? ; 3. Nostalgia posts, which will eventually drag back to "talk about the current HS negatively" or 4. funny moments, which the discussion won't last long on.

It's nearly impossible to discuss about the development of Hearthstone without mentioning anything negative about them.

Strategy discussions won't last long either, because skill and decision making has been being severely devalued. Nothing much to say when the game is watered down by so much - that's is not a sole opinion from me, a lot of other huge streamers/ long time players are saying the same thing also.

But even if I say something negative about Hearthstone, I try my best not to go ad hominem.

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Okay, to be fair, Hearthstone has been trying to make cool stuff happen. It's just that most of their effort is invalidated by aggro decks (their powercreeping created this problem).

When the next expansion is out, LoE will be rotated out of standard. Trogg and Dr. 4 will be rotated out of Standard, so hopefully that will curb the rampage of Aggro Shaman. Not sure how Pirate Warriors will be kept in check tho - especially when Reno and Brann is rotated out of Standard also.

Most of the 'cool stuff' that team5 have put so much effort in are rather slow (compare to Patches/Tunnel Trogg/Dr. 4 .etc). I guess that when the meta is slower, those 'cool stuff' will be finally viable.

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I do not think either game is objectively superior.  If you want me to defend Hearthstone on specific aspects I can do that, but I cannot prove that either game is better than the other.

 

For example randomness and deck consistency.

I do not consider RNG, or at least RNG the way Hearthstone does it, to be a problem.  The randomness is controlled enough that I would consider it to have a net positive effect on the game.  I realize this is not your bag but I dig it, and constantly telling me Shadowverse is a better game because it has less RNG cards in it is an opinion, not a fact.  To be blunt they make the game stay interesting longer for some people.  You never knew what was going to happen in a Yogg Mirror.  You know exactly what's going to happen against Roach.dek.

As for deck consistency the last time I was on I played a ****ing Renolock in Wild so I obviously don't give a ****, regardless of whether or not Hearthstone is actually more consistent because of the smaller deck or whether the 3-of vs 2-of thing matters.

 

So basically what I'm saying is that when someone says Shadowverse is definitively better than Hearthstone because of less RNG, I still say "that's your opinion".

 

If we want to discuss a different topic then please pick it b/c this isn't For Honor.  I don't have the inclination to try to cover everything all at once.

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2 minutes ago, Jack42 said:

I do not think either game is objectively superior.  If you want me to defend Hearthstone on specific aspects I can do that, but I cannot prove that either game is better than the other.

 

For example randomness and deck consistency.

I do not consider RNG, or at least RNG the way Hearthstone does it, to be a problem.  The randomness is controlled enough that I would consider it to have a net positive effect on the game.  I realize this is not your bag but I dig it, and constantly telling me Shadowverse is a better game because it has less RNG cards in it is an opinion, not a fact.  To be blunt they make the game stay interesting longer for some people.  You never knew what was going to happen in a Yogg Mirror.  You know exactly what's going to happen against Roach.dek.

As for deck consistency the last time I was on I played a ****ing Renolock in Wild so I obviously don't give a ****, regardless of whether or not Hearthstone is actually more consistent because of the smaller deck or whether the 3-of vs 2-of thing matters.

 

So basically what I'm saying is that when someone says Shadowverse is definitively better than Hearthstone because of less RNG, I still say "that's your opinion".

 

If we want to discuss a different topic then please pick it b/c this isn't For Honor.  I don't have the inclination to try to cover everything all at once.

Weird that you chose to spend time to write up about a game you hated and have only played for around a week, but not a game which you have played for a long period and considered it okay.

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