fangore

The salt mega thread.

1,434 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Quickblader - Quickblader - Frog - Fencer - White General - Cyclone Blade ... christ, fml.

Meanwhile none of the 3 x Corpse, 3 x Necroassassin pulled.

Edited by Unryuu

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IMG_0137.JPG.6a628628b2a6598d0e666fe2e7202e34.JPG "I have a gift for you, because I know how much you love Forestcraft..."

IMG_0141.thumb.PNG.12fb555e2bc6a1faed741f269737b676.PNG

 

òwó

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Why in a **** every one is playing aggro? This is just ***. I played about 16-18 games to get 4 ranked heaven wins done.

I pick my neutral Seraph deck, and I got destroyed. Constantly. The **** with this ****? in 1 game I left with 10 hp ON TURN 3!!!!! HAVING PIRFECT 1-3 HAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I won 2 games, and then went into oblivios 5 loses streak. I lost to all kind of aggro decks: sword, heaven, rune, blood. The ****! I even saw netral aggro dragon, with goblins and ****. DA**** IS THIS?!

I faced one blood who looked controlis enough, he was skiping turns, trading and stuff. Finaly, i thoutgh a normal player. NO, IT WAS LIE. FROM KEY DUDE GOT ZEUS AND PLAYED 4 BLOOD STORMS FROM HAND!!!!!! EVEN THIS POOR BASTARD was only pretending to be control deck.

I lost my ****, then I was paired with DShift..

I took my storm list, and eat some **** with it. I finished my quest, but very pissed and depressed. I dont know how should i change my seraph list to make it viable again... 

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Well that's the obvious consequence of needlessly nerfing the two strong control decks, ramp dragon and Aegis.  What does aggro have to fear?  Nothing.  Just play a different flavor of aggro and enjoy the lame ride. 

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1 hour ago, fangore said:

Well that's the obvious consequence of needlessly nerfing the two strong control decks, ramp dragon and Aegis.  What does aggro have to fear?  Nothing.  Just play a different flavor of aggro and enjoy the lame ride. 

+1, definitely not motivated to care about the next XPack at this point.

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There are control decks that can beat aggro pretty solidly. The problem is they have bad matchups against decks like DS, Ramp Dragon, and Aegis, because these decks punish you hard for being control.

And losing to greedy decks feels worse IMO than losing to aggressive ones. Because you have a bunch of reactive cards that basically have no targets.

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1 hour ago, Unryuu said:

+1, definitely not motivated to care about the next XPack at this point.

Yeah major changes are needed, let me correct that smart major changes are needed.

47 minutes ago, Yue said:

There are control decks that can beat aggro pretty solidly. The problem is they have bad matchups against decks like DS, Ramp Dragon, and Aegis, because these decks punish you hard for being control.

And losing to greedy decks feels worse IMO than losing to aggressive ones. Because you have a bunch of reactive cards that basically have no targets.

That's subjective getting stormed snowballed to zero health by turn 5 is for many people as bad as it gets. 

However it would be nice if for once it was control decks dominant instead of aggro or mid-range like it always is.

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I feel that no one is caring enough about my ****ty Forestcraft drawing -_-xD

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Posted (edited)

43 minutes ago, fangore said:

That's subjective getting stormed snowballed to zero health by turn 5 is for many people as bad as it gets. 

However it would be nice if for once it was control decks dominant instead of aggro or mid-range like it always is.

IIRC there was a time when PtP Forest was strong, they had to nerf cards from it repeatedly. Not sure if you count Elana Haven / Ramp Dragon as control but they were also pretty dominant at certain points.

 

41 minutes ago, Morrigan said:

I feel that no one is caring enough about my ****ty Forestcraft drawing -_-xD

Not sure which drawing you're talking about. >_>

Edited by Yue

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1 hour ago, Yue said:

Not sure which drawing you're talking about. >_>

I keep drawing Forestcraft cards...like the ones above. Two Lizas, one animated...

why? I don't play forest! They other day...B&B...

-_______—

 

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2 hours ago, Yue said:

IIRC there was a time when PtP Forest was strong, they had to nerf cards from it repeatedly. Not sure if you count Elana Haven / Ramp Dragon as control but they were also pretty dominant at certain points.

 

 

Yeah I know PTP Forest was very strong, it still wasn't a 'control' meta at that time.   Midrange and aggro sword were also very strong at that same time.   In DE while Seraph/Elena was strong, the other 2 top tier decks were Tempo Forest and Midrange sword.  Near the end aggro forest was outperforming tempo forest I believe as well.  

Standard: Midrange sword, PTP Forest

DE: Midrange sword, Tempo Forest, Seraph/Elana Hybrid Haven

RoB: OTK Roach, Daria, Albert sword

ToG: Midrange and Aggro Shadow, Ramp dragon (weaker than shadow certainly)

Wonderland: Neutral blood, then aggro fest

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Morrigan said:

I keep drawing Forestcraft cards...like the ones above. Two Lizas, one animated...

why? I don't play forest! They other day...B&B...

-_______—

Oh, I thought you meant drawing as in art not pack draws l0l.

 

1 hour ago, fangore said:

Yeah I know PTP Forest was very strong, it still wasn't a 'control' meta at that time.   Midrange and aggro sword were also very strong at that same time.   In DE while Seraph/Elena was strong, the other 2 top tier decks were Tempo Forest and Midrange sword.  Near the end aggro forest was outperforming tempo forest I believe as well.  

Standard: Midrange sword, PTP Forest

DE: Midrange sword, Tempo Forest, Seraph/Elana Hybrid Haven

RoB: OTK Roach, Daria, Albert sword

ToG: Midrange and Aggro Shadow, Ramp dragon (weaker than shadow certainly)

Wonderland: Neutral blood, then aggro fest

I guess RoB / Wonderland might be the two metas dominated by Aggro/Midrange then.

Anyway I think DS alone would make it difficult to have a truly control dominant meta.

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Posted (edited)

35 minutes ago, Yue said:

Anyway I think DS alone would make it difficult to have a truly control dominant meta.

Dev Reasoning ... Snow White has to die because we can't ever have a control dominant meta, Roaches/Baphomet has to die because we can't ever have a combo dominant meta, DShift ... hm ... we like it, and it has a high playrate, so I suppose we'll allow a crapfest of an aggro meta.

I don't see how Shift is functionally any different from LB erasing entire Neph boards and Seraph boards and Elana boards and Incorruptible/Leonidas amulets, now that was one hell of a utility card ... that could shut down entire archetypes.

Edited by Unryuu

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43 minutes ago, Unryuu said:

Dev Reasoning ... Snow White has to die because we can't ever have a control dominant meta, Roaches/Baphomet has to die because we can't ever have a combo dominant meta, DShift ... hm ... we like it, and it has a high playrate, so I suppose we'll allow a crapfest of an aggro meta.

I don't see how Shift is functionally any different from LB erasing entire Neph boards and Seraph boards and Elana boards and Incorruptible/Leonidas amulets, now that was one hell of a utility card ... that could shut down entire archetypes.

i can't take dev seriously anymore after the 'we nerf lb because amulet'--> print emeralda next expansion.

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Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, Kyubey said:

i can't take dev seriously anymore after the 'we nerf lb because amulet'--> print emeralda next expansion.

I can't take the devs seriously after they printed Phantom Cat and Spawn, kappa.

They really wanted games to finish in 3 minutes.

Edited by Unryuu

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1 minute ago, Unryuu said:

I can't take the devs seriously after they printed Phantom Cat and Spawn, kappa.

at least we landed at the same expansion lol...

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Well the first blunder I clearly recall is the OTK roach nerf.  They said how problematic it is was easy to make Goblin mage 100% pull roach in that deck.  Yet they ignored that Maid leader did the exact same thing for Albert decks at the time.  

They balanced Daria going 2nd win rate over 1st with a nerf, which was also fishy since other decks had substantial differences between going 1st and 2nd.  On top of that Daria had like a 52 or 53% win rate, perfectly acceptable for a top tier deck.  

It only got worse later with test of strength, what low rank win rate matters?  Yeah there have been super broken decks in low ranks before but that was completely ignored until then.  Then they did their pre emptive nerf deal.  

How far they've fallen.  Though I thought it was ludicrous they had to release a statement about why they didn't nerf Elana and Dshift during DE cause so many low rank low skill imbeciles complained about them despite them not being broken decks or anything close to it, I also saw it as a FU babies we have scruples and nerf only according to data and objectively.  What a joke they've become, bending over backwards to satisfy the village idiots and destroying their own game in the process.

 

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Elana was overpowered? Lol, but they covet healing like it's the holy sodding grail xD 

on topic: bloods, blood everywhere today! 6 matches 5 of them were blood, the other was a sword who instant conceded lol.... aggro blood after aggro blood, the only good part to me, and probably @Morrigan too, was I lost! To control blood! With sneks! I almost felt happy to have lost, cause maelstrom one of the few blood legendaries I actually like xD 

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Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, Othello said:

Elana was overpowered? Lol, but they covet healing like it's the holy sodding grail xD 

on topic: bloods, blood everywhere today! 6 matches 5 of them were blood, the other was a sword who instant conceded lol.... aggro blood after aggro blood, the only good part to me, and probably @Morrigan too, was I lost! To control blood! With sneks! I almost felt happy to have lost, cause maelstrom one of the few blood legendaries I actually like xD 

, i like sneks too. Lucky to be you meet him..

Edited by Greevilz

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33 minutes ago, Kyubey said:

@rng: fak u

20953170_640240169513901_183219565589804

Still won?

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Just now, zzMedVeDzz said:

Still won?

what's the point of putting this in salt thread if i still won?

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9 minutes ago, Kyubey said:

what's the point of putting this in salt thread if i still won?

Like you have amulet proc next turn and will garanty have something to play. Also other cards arepretty good, heals, boardclear and stuff. What so bad about it?

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10 hours ago, fangore said:

Well the first blunder I clearly recall is the OTK roach nerf.  They said how problematic it is was easy to make Goblin mage 100% pull roach in that deck.  Yet they ignored that Maid leader did the exact same thing for Albert decks at the time.  

 

Albert decks of the time had negative winrates. Master Rank Midrange Swordcraft had a winrate of 48.9% when Roach was king. Nerfing a consistent deck that consistently does not win doesn't make any sense. Not nerfing Maid Leader was completely reasonable. It was not a blunder at the time, and it was not a blunder in retrospect because the very best that Midrange Sword ever managed in post-nerf RoB-land was a 55.4% winrate, which is still less than two other decks of that week (Face Dragon and Wolf Bolt were at 57.3% and 59.6% respectively). And that best week for Albert Sword is still worse than the best week for OTK Roach from the pre-nerf period (55.9%) while having a much much lower playrate: 15.5% for pre-nerf Roach and only 6.1% for post-nerf Albert Sword.

Albert Sword never got particularly close to the level of oppressiveness that OTK Roach was at. In mid-February, OTK Roach by itself was played more often than five whole crafts. No Sword deck has ever gotten anywhere near that. Albert Sword never even got to be the second most played deck.

I know you have an insane hate for Swordcraft, but you gotta take a step back and remind yourself that this hatred is literally insane. The data does not back you up. Swordcraft has never had the most played or the most powerful deck. Period. There have been times when various Sword decks were Tier 1, but they've never been the top of Tier 1 by any measure.

There has never been a time when a Swordcraft nerf would have been justified, and the fact that there hasn't been a Swordcraft nerf is not and has never been a mark against the devs.

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Posted (edited)

Post nerf, man.  Yue already proved it to you.  Aggro and mid range sword were both the same deck, Albert sword.  The top deck.  The data backs this up.  Sword should have been hit during the end of RoB, but it escaped like it always does.  It also should have been hit at the end of standard.

http://shadowlog.com/trend/2016/37/0/

Mid range sword 56% win rate, and look at this match up chart

http://shadowlog.com/trend/2016/37/0/21

However my point was their reasoning behind the OTK roach nerf.  Instead of saying the deck was overperforming, they more said that the goblin mage interaction was problematic even though the same exact interaction was happening in Albertcraft.  

Also I don't hate sword, otherwise I wouldn't play it.  However loony tunes like Cypherhalo and Imperial Dane being the loudest representatives of the class certainly doesn't do it any favors.  

 

Edited by fangore

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